The Making Of A Talent Agent with Jeff Lesh

Larry Samuels 0:03

Hello and welcome to No Wrong Choices. Along with Larry Jack at Two Charles Xena, I am Larry Daniels, and this is a podcast about the adventures of life. Where each episode we'll talk to somebody who had a dream or a vision chased after it either got there or got close, and they're going to share their story back with us. And this week we're we're talking to a good friend of mine, talent agent Jeff Letch, who's been in the business for decades working for William Morris. Uh broke in through the the legendary mailroom program, which I'll certainly dig into as we get into the conversation. But uh a good friend and a great, great storyteller. Uh maybe uh, you know, too, Jerry, you've spent a lot of time with Jeff over the years. Do you want to tell us a little bit about him?

Tushar Saxena 0:48

I think this is a great way to start us off, too, speaking of Jeff Letch, your good buddy. Um and I and I've known I've known him like like you said, I've probably known Jeff for about 10 years. And I realized that after speaking to him, I really probably didn't know Jeff all that well at all. Um you know, this is all about the story about how you make it and how you get to the top, and it's partly luck, it's part opportunity, and then it's you know it's part hard work as well. So I'll tell you what, I had a great time talking to Jeff. I mean, I always have a great time hanging out with Jeff and talking to him, but this was really this was really probably one of the first times I actually had an opportunity to sit down and get to know Jeff a little bit better. That's really what I was really happy with.

Larry Shea 1:24

Yeah, we've been bumping into Jeff at Super Bowl parties and special events for, you know, like like he said a decade or a decade and a half. Yeah. And one of the things you always realize about Jeff is what a great storyteller he is. So what a perfect guy to bring on our program and talk about his amazing career because he's had one. And it's about, as you said, Steve, it's about opportunity and then being prepared once that opportunity presents itself. And one of the things you know that we're gonna try to bring to our listeners on this show is how you can be prepared to enter the door as it's cracked for you. Because you know, if you have that opportunity and you're not prepared to take to follow through with it, what good is it? You know, so we're gonna bring you some entertaining stories, some interesting people, some great storytellers like Jeff. And I think it's a great way to kick it off and get the ball, get the ball rolling with Jeff Live. I agree.

Larry Samuels 2:15

And uh, you know, the other thing that's so great about things like this is sometimes wonderful opportunities are either find us or we happen to stumble into them by accident. And in the case of Jeff, I think there's a little bit of both that happens here. So with that, why don't we step into the interview, everybody? Here is Jeff Lesh. Now, joining the conversation is my close friend and veteran talent agent Jeff Lesh. Thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

I am happy to be here and only just to spend some time with Tushar. That's the most important thing. It really is.

Larry Samuels 2:49

That is that is how we feel all the time. So, Jeff, as we were sort of putting the parameters together for a show about dreamers and people figuring out their path in life and sort of going after that dream and grabbing onto it, the first person I thought of was undoubtedly you, who wakes up at 10, goes to work at noon, comes home at 3:30, takes a two-hour lunch. Like if anybody's living the dream and has it figured out, it's Jeff Lesch.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

I can't even explain how you just completely described my schedule. So for you, it's you're forgetting the yoga session.

Tushar Saxena 3:32

So for you, it's my baby takes the afternoon train, works from noon till three, and then works from works from noon to noon 03.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

I love it.

Tushar Saxena 3:46

So, Jeff, I I guess I'll start off with the first question to you, which is Did you always want to be a talent agent?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Hell no. The answer is I had no idea what being a talent agent was. I had limited experience with it, didn't know. I wanted to be a pharmacist. You wanted to be a pharmacist? Why a pharmacist? I want well, my father had a pharmacy in Jersey. It was a pharmacy and liquor store, and I could have been either a drunk or a pharmacist, so I wanted to be a pharmacist, and I turned out to be a the pharmacist part didn't work out. Thank you. Clearly, clearly. Clearly, clearly. So I went to the University of Rhode Island and I could not pass organic chemistry. So the good people at the University of Rhode Island suggested that I find something else to do with my time. You can either you can either uh find another major or go to a different school. Don't come back here. So I uh I switched to become a uh uh journalism and history major and got some internships at local television stations and ended up um uh this time of year is like the perfect way of uh of talk. This time of uh of year is the perfect perfect time to talk about it because I uh got a job working at the 96 Olympic Games in Atlanta for NBC.

Tushar Saxena 5:10

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

And it was through a friend I who's a friend of Larry's as well. Um he went to Emery, he called me and said they're desperate for people to come down and work at the Olympics. And I said, you know, desperate, perfect.

SPEAKER_04 5:23

I'm perfect in it.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

What I think desperate is I think Jeff left. Desperate. When you were desperate for someone, clearly because of this interview, Larry, desperate. Um when so I got I got into my father's '93 Buick Century, and I drove to Atlanta that night, 15 hours, and I ended up working for NBC for the whole of the Olympics. But it wasn't just, you know, just during the games. I was there for I think six or seven weeks, you know, with the prep and then with everything else. And I was a PA. I was, you know, run get me coffee, uh, go get donuts, one box for the crew, one box for Al Roker. Um, it was it was Al was much bigger at the time. And we would it was basically go pick up uh uh Mary Lou Retton at the airport. Um it was the craziest job. I met everybody. I was in the park when the bomb blew up. Um I I was I had breakfast with Richard Jewell that morning. If you guys remember, he was the guy who was accused of blowing it up, and we all knew he didn't do it, you know. Um but it was like it was you know an absolutely crazy, amazing, awesome summer. So hold on.

Larry Shea 6:35

So let's back up, let's back up to that moment, because this is the critical thing. This is what the the the the crux of the biscuit is with this show is how did that happen? So the crux of the biscuit. So was it a phone call? Tell us about that because that had to be the biggest break of your life in terms of your professional career right there. That phone call that drove you down to Atlanta to get this job, and then you were willing to do pretty much anything, correct?

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Exactly. Okay, so the the background is I hadn't I didn't know anybody in the entertainment business. So I grew up, I always won I always loved television, right? I always loved I I always loved TV. I was I'm an insomniac, as Larry will tell you. So I was up all night watching TV. After a while, my parents gave up. I didn't have a a bedtime, I would just be up watching TV all night. Um so it was always my like favorite thing, but I didn't know someone could make a career out of it. It just never occurred to me. So um I when I switched majors, I was able to get this internship at the local news station on my own, but that summer, uh, which you know, I didn't have a I didn't have anything lined up. So I figured out a way through a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend, which is what everybody does, to get an internship. Do you guys remember the MTV Beach House?

Tushar Saxena 7:47

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Of course, sure. Right? So I ended up um getting an internship at the MTV Beach House, and my summer was gonna be spent, I think it was at the Hamptons that year, just kind of being a gopher for whatever interns do at the MTV Beach House. Um, and then our friend Craig calls me up and says, Hey, he gives me the desperation phone call and says they need people and uh and they pay. So I wasn't gonna get paid for the internship, and it was with NBC at the Olympics and not MTV. I mean, I'm sure there would have been other perks, but you know, I'm like, yeah, why not? Let's do this. So that phone call got me right into that car, and down I went, and I mean, it was it was awesome. I did everything. Uh I was at every I was at so many of the events, I met every famous person who was there. I was like, I was Bob Costas' driver. Like it was just wow.

Tushar Saxena 8:42

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

And I didn't know anything. We get there and they hand us keys to a brand new Cadillac and a card where you can get a coconut in Atlanta.

Larry Samuels 8:54

Exactly. Yeah, that's good. Well, the relationship. Easy, easy. I mean, the relationships that you made through that experience must have been um you know invaluable. And and you know, knowing your story as well as I do, if if I remember correctly, from there you became a page at NBC, which must have you know accelerated you know your network and opened up that many more doors. Did you jump right from the Olympics to the page program?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

No. So at the end of the Olympics, um, I became the this is something that I kind of learned is always be there when someone turns around and needs something, no matter how stupid it is, and always be the first guy that someone thinks of. You want to be the person that says, oh crap, get Larry, oh crap, get Tushar, oh crap, get Jeff.

Larry Samuels 9:46

It's one of your best qualities, Jeff, I must say.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

I have very few. Yeah, that's a good one. That's true. So they, you know, you always want to be that guy. So I became that guy down in Atlanta. And at the end of it, they said, Listen, are you going home? Do you have any plans? Short story is I got hired to work at the Democratic National Convention, which was Clinton's second nomination in Chicago. And I ended up going there, and they were launching MSNBC. So I I was there when the first broadcast, and I was, you know, I was there when you know Clinton got the nomination, Balloons Fall, all that. And then I had plans to go overseas for a year abroad. And uh they said, well, just keep in touch. And uh through that I got an internship at Dateline. So my last year at school, I was just I was barely doing any classes, and I I drove down to 30 Rock and I would, you know, work for Dateline. And then when I graduated with Stone Phillips and Jane Paul uh who were very nice, they were always they were lovely. And uh they were really nice to the interns, which I I've learned to judge people by how nice they are to the people that are below them very interesting. Because and and and everyone of quality I ever met was like that. They were they were all the people that are nice to their assistants that are nice to the interns, and specifically nice to the pages at NBC, which I'll get to, those were the quality people. So I uh uh uh I graduated on a Wednesday, Thursday, I had a page interview, which I don't know if you guys know about it, but it's like it's a really complicated program to get into. And if I didn't have these other jobs, I never would have gotten into it. I never would have heard of it.

Larry Samuels 11:29

Jeff, for context, and and I don't know how many you know people are familiar with the program. There's so many stars, so many celebrities, so many CEOs who have come out of that program. Just just name a few to give people context.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Oh god uh Brandon Tardigoff, Mike Eisner, um uh on the uh on the on the acting side, Regis Gilden, uh uh uh and more recently Aubrey Plaza from Parks and Recreations.

Tushar Saxena 11:56

They were they were pages.

SPEAKER_00 11:58

I think Superman was a page, if I remember correctly. Oh my god. Uh yeah, Chris Reed, yeah. They were like all but there's but that's just like that's how it was. It's like most of them are behind the scenes people. Like most of them just, you know, they went on to not you know, not the headline names, but the people running networks and the people doing, you know, doing the work of TV and film, so many of them were paid. But it's a big deal. So many of them were paying. It's a big deal.

Larry Shea 12:23

I mean, every everything you're talking about is relationships, right? It's like the people you knew and the things that happen along the way, right? It just seems to be a general theme in how you get from one point to another, too.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

And and you know, Larry, I know Larry has this attitude too. Like, if you were, you know, I don't know how much I can swear on this, but if you were a jackass to people along the way, everybody remembers you as the jackass. Yep. But if you were cool, everybody, oh, I know that guy, bring him in.

Larry Samuels 12:49

But but you know, interestingly, and I'll just throw this out there, you learn from those people too. Like, I'm a believer that you learn from every single experience in life. And when I look back as my time as a manager, all those horrible people that I dealt with along the way, they taught me just as much as the good people, and I'm sure you had those same experiences. Oh, God, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

I Larry, you you had a well guys, this is I I met Larry had an internship. What did you have an internship there, Larry?

Larry Samuels 13:16

I I started as an intern and then I just, you know, uh picked up every project I possibly could, similar to you, working in the studios. Eventually I was a freelance PA, and then I was a full-time PA who was paid like a freelance PA, so I just did everything I possibly could.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Well, the reason why I say that is because Larry had this boss who will remain nameless, but he was a jerk off.

Larry Samuels 13:39

I almost fought him in a hallway. That is a true story.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I really did. Well, to be fair, to be fair, it would have been a very short fight.

Larry Samuels 13:48

Yes.

Tushar Saxena 13:51

Who would have won?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Wait a minute. Well, wait, wait. It would have been two hits. It would have been Larry hitting him and then Larry hitting him again. That's exactly right.

Larry Samuels 14:02

This MF drove me out of NBC because I was gonna kill him. I needed to do it for my own safety.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

So he didn't do time. But anyway, the point going back to what Larry was saying is I learned a lot from that guy because I saw how he acted. Yep. I saw how he treated people, and yeah, he was really good at his primary job, but eventually you become expendable in that primary job.

Tushar Saxena 14:27

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

And it's how you act to people, is how is how you're judged. And good lord.

Tushar Saxena 14:35

So at what moment then, you know, after all this, all these all these experiences you've had, did you say to yourself, you know what? I really love what I'm doing here. So this is the this is the career I want to go for.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

So I loved it. I was at I was working at at the time it was Conan O'Brien's show. I was working at Rosie O'Donnell's show, I was working at Saturday Night Live, I was working at like I was at every single Saturday Night Live, 90, you know, 9, 97, 98, 99. I was like at every one. Wow. Um, and it was like it was easily the greatest job in the world because all the women were gorgeous and all the guys looked like me, which means to look I looked like you guys. Like it was it was it was uh thank you. So uh and it was it was absolutely the greatest. I made 10 bucks an hour, no health insurance, and we just never stopped working. We and anytime anybody turned around and needed something, I would be there. And everybody wanted which basically what you do is you give tours to tourists, right? And I remember like you'd have people from Wisconsin come in and you'd be reading from a script, like, you know, this is where uh uh you know Seinfeld is on NBC and it makes a million dollars every 30 seconds uh for commercials, and NBC makes 95% of its money from uh commercials. And some yokel would always ask, well, where's the other five percent come? And I would mix it up. I'd say gambling and prostitution. And and eventually they suggested that I don't do tours anymore. Good thinking. I was I was scaring the tourists from Wisconsin. So everybody was going, then you what you do is you apply for assignments, and you you you go and work for um the the uh you know one of the shows, SNL or Conan or whatever. And I looked around and saw that the people who got hired after they were done with their paid program, because it's only a year long, all were doing um behind the scenes stuff. Like they weren't doing the glamour spots of you know being being down at the SNL desk and hanging out with George Clooney. They were working in marketing, they were working in in PR, they were working for news, they were doing that stuff. So I took all of the non-glamour assignments. And um I think it was uh around that time that um someone came to me and said, Hey, look, um, I know you got a little while left in your page program, but do you want to work for news? And I took a job as a news producer, and I had uh like I spent the summer in Pittsburgh. I was working with Geraldo Rivera at the time, and um I was you know, I was I wasn't I was a 23-year-old news producer. It was stupid that they just gave me this job.

Larry Samuels 17:26

I I can't imagine what you learned from Gerardo. Geraldo.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Um I learned never what I learned from him, I I learned never to be in anyone's shot. Like, get the fuck out of the way. Right.

Larry Samuels 17:40

And the truth doesn't really matter.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Like at the time, but it was mostly like you could do a montage of Geraldo. Like you could literally do a montage with me like, Lesh, get out of my shot. Get out of my shot. You can literally do a montage. I love it. Um but he was a nice enough guy, and uh it was, you know, it was he was doing this. Is before he kind of lost his mind with the with the with the with the right-wing stuff, and he was, you know, he was he was cool. Um and I remember before I forget, one of the greatest jobs I had at SNL. I don't know if you guys remember this, but in 97, 98, 99, the hottest tickets in New York were Yankees Red Sox, the producers on Broadway with Broderick and um Nathan Lane.

Tushar Saxena 18:31

Nathan Lane, yeah. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

And uh and Rosie O'Donnell's show. Rosie O'Donnell's tickets were like gold.

Larry Samuels 18:37

Really? Did they know she was an asshole? Were they aware of this or no?

SPEAKER_00 18:41

Well, I I can I I can I can get back to that later as far as her acting. Never mind, never mind. Um, that's one I can actually talk about. She was terrible. She was a tyrant, she was awful to her people, she had people tired, whatever. Um, remind me of that so I can get back to that because there's a mayor culpa. So um uh anyway, it was the hottest ticket in the world. So I became like the ticket guy. Someone decided I should be the one in charge of the tickets for the Rosie O'Donnell. I was trading these things for everything under the sun. Like front row seats at the producer's. I was like, I was like a concierge, like just getting every the executives at NBC would call me and try ask me to get tickets for Rosie O'Donnell's show. Like high-level people. Her brother once called me, who Larry knows, and asked me to get them tickets.

Larry Samuels 19:32

To her to his sister's show.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Yes. Yes. Did she not want him at the show? She didn't, she didn't he didn't want to bother her, you know? So he bothered me. So he bothered you. Um yeah, but it was like I would, I would, it was the greatest thing in the world. It was like you had the keys to the kingdom. I only had the job for like, you know, two months, but it was like the greatest thing in the world in the summer of the city.

Larry Shea 19:52

It's gonna go on Jeff's tombstone. It's gonna be once was the keeper of Rosie.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Exactly. Exactly. So to get back to that, she was a tyrant and she was terrible. Later in life at William Morris, I met her, and it was, you know, it's 15 years later, and she like acknowledged how horrible she was. She was like Jermaine culpa and could not be a nicer person. Wow.

Larry Samuels 20:18

I feel slightly better. So you're giving out rosy tickets, you're you're navigating the halls of NBC. When does the moment come that you say, okay, I've been doing this, I've been paying my dues, there's gotta be a little bit more, or is there something else that I want to chase?

Tushar Saxena 20:35

Wait, before you answer that question, Jeff, what was the time period we're talking about now? You know, you've you've done all your experience and stuff, now you're you've essentially had your keeper of the castle moment, and then you're gonna move forward again. So what how many, how long of a time period are we talking about there?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

So I was at NBC between paging and producing and whatnot from 96 until May 2000. And in May 2000, so I was I I became a promotions producer, I was working on news and nightly, and I looked around and saw that everyone was in their 40s, everyone was divorced, everyone worked 9,000 hours a day, everyone was miserable, everybody was waking up. Uh the only people who were married still were people who were married to other people in the same business. Sure. Right? So I didn't care about that, but I was kind of looking at my future. I'm like, do I want to be waking up at four in the morning listening to NPR, you know, for that next story and trying to figure out how to, you know, produce it for NBC News. Um, but you know, I had this dilemma because I was basically living a dream. Like I wanted to work at NBC, you know, I I I didn't and it's NBC. It's the best and the best in, you know, NBC News. So um I was I went to my boss and I said, you know, what else can I do? And So she introduced me to, she liked me, so she introduced me to this guy, and his name was Henry Reesch. And Henry was the um, he was the he worked for a William Morris agency, and he was the um he represented uh anchors and reporters and um uh on-air personalities. He was the agent for the on-air personalities. And uh, you know, his client list includes everybody from Joe Scarborough to Lawrence O'Donnell to to Jim Kramer to it's it's just he's it's he's the best in the business. And I became friendly with him as he would come in and out. And after a while, he turned to me and I he said, you know, what do you what do you want to do? And I said, you know, what you do sounds kind of interesting. And he says, Well, you know, you seem marginally intelligent. Why don't you come work in our mailroom? And I said, I am marginally intelligent.

Larry Shea 22:57

Right. So, so what so what happened? So this is all right, this is it right here, right? Because you're you're about to make a leap. You know, we can all feel that happening. How does it happen? How does this how does this uh transformation occur?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

Uh uh another friend of actually of Larry's introduced me to someone else where I was at the same time offered a job. This is 99. I'm sorry, this is like late 99, 2000, May of 2000, like around there. And the job was to work for NBC's new web services in San Francisco, which is like one of my favorite cities, making like at the time I was, you know, I I still wasn't making a ton of dough, um, but it was making close to six figures, car, shares, like the whole thing, moving to San Francisco, which is one of my favorite cities, and I had that on the table. And then I was offered a spot in the William Morris mailroom, making $17,500 a year. And um it is, I don't know if you guys know or know what it is or have heard of it, but it is a real as as as cool as the page program is, the William Morris Mailroom is like it's really the keys to the king. Really? It's really it's harder to get into than Harvard Business School. It is, it is the the so I don't have the job yet, right? So I I was just offered an interview, it's all I was offered. Um and I just, you know, so so I was so I was offered that one job in San Francisco, which is a no-brainer to take. Like it's a total no-brainer. And I remember I was talking on my, I was about to move out of my house. I was still living with my parents, I'm 25. And my father I said to my father, you know, well, I'm right. Anyway, I got the interview. Um, I end up getting I end up getting in. It was like a panel interview. There were like these six senior agents of like really famous people. Um and um I I make it. I they they offered me the job. I mean, Henry was super helpful. That guy, you know, just I guess really went to bat for him.

SPEAKER_04 25:03

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

And I remember saying to my father, I'm like, okay, this is the job in San Francisco, or I could do this job. And my father, who's a pharmacist in Jersey, had he didn't know from the internet, like he didn't know from NBCI or whatever, but he had heard of the William Morris mailroom. Uh and he said, No, you gotta take that job.

SPEAKER_04 25:25

The one at William Morris.

SPEAKER_00 25:26

The one at William Morris. And I and he says, I said, Yeah, Bob, but it means I gotta stay home and live with you and mom. He goes, Don't leave me alone with that.

Larry Samuels 25:35

I've met your mom and I understand completely.

SPEAKER_04 25:39

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

So I took that gig. And uh, you know, a side note is uh have you guys ever heard of NBCI? I well, no, that's that's exactly the next question I was going to ask.

Larry Samuels 25:54

When he talked about inflection points, you chose to go right. You could have gone left. Yeah, but we know what happens after you went right. What what would have happened if you had made that other decision?

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Well, I always say like I made the best decision in the world, but who knows? I might have been in Silicon Valley and I might have met, you know.

Larry Samuels 26:11

That's true.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

I might have met uh Elon Musk. You know what I mean? Like uh Google would have been talking to you exactly. It would have been Jugle, it would have been for Jews online.

Larry Samuels 26:26

You're you're in the door, you're you're pushing the mail cart and uh you're literally pushing the mail cart. Are you told beforehand that you know this is what you're gonna be doing for the next six months, 12 months, three years? Like how long is your sentence going into this?

SPEAKER_00 26:43

There is no sentence. Like it is a sentence without end. So basically, you work pushing a mail cart. So you I remember like you guys sent me over like a list of hazing and things like that. There's no hazing per se, okay? But you are making very little dough in the most expensive city in the world, and you there is no prospect of making more dough because there's no guarantees. It's not like you know, being a being an intern in a law firm where you start off at a certain level and then you go up. It's got like a 97% attrition rate. Wow. Wow. So excuse me. So um you do that for six months and then you become a floating assistant, which means you basically, whenever a regular assistant to an agent is not around, you fill in for that day. So after you push a mail card around, you kind of meet as many people as you can, um, and you see the craziness that's going on, people yelling at people, people screaming at people, people, you know, it's not just like Entourage, but it's a little bit like Entourage.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Right.

Tushar Saxena 27:49

Did you ever see the movie Swimming with Sharks?

SPEAKER_00 27:52

So he Buddy Ackerman was not an agent. He was a he was a producer. Right. So we didn't have a guy like that. That he was based on um uh shoot, who was the guy? He was based on uh Scott Rudin.

Larry Shea 28:09

That sounds right.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Yeah. That sounds right. He was based on him. Um where from the outside you'd think he's the greatest guy in the world, but when you worked for him or had to work with him, you realize what a crazy person he was.

Larry Shea 28:23

So that's part of the pay in the do stuff, too. Right there, that is about, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

It is the pay-in-the-du stuff, but 90% of the people were really not like normal people. You know, you had crazies and they were fun, but they were, you know.

Larry Shea 28:37

It's it's the entertainment business. There's going to be crazies.

Larry Samuels 28:40

You know, you you've been pushing the mail cart around for a while, and you understand the culture, you're getting a feel, you're a floating agent. Like, when when was the moment where you're like, okay, I can do this? Um, and I want to do this, and and and uh collectively with that, when did you know that you could do it and that you were the right guy? Well, I'll let you know. Yeah. Um the like what made you different? What made you unique from the others that were pushing the cards too?

SPEAKER_00 29:13

One of the comedy desks opened up. Um and honestly, a lot one of the big things that made me different was privilege. I was able to save my dough. I was able to live with my parents. I didn't have to go and take a job making tons of money. I was able to afford to do things, you know, uh, because I'm lucky that I had the backup. Um, so I was able to make very little money. You get on a desk. I got on a desk of a guy named Um Brian Stern, who was a young agent in the comedy department, and I was his assistant for uh three and a half years. And in that three and a half years, everybody from my mailroom class went, they got jobs on Wall Street, they got jobs for Goldman Sachs, they went and got jobs for studios, they went and got jobs for, you know, they did a they did a whole bunch of different things. Most of them, every one of them who wants to be in the entertainment industry is still in the entertainment industry. But for the for the most part, they, you know, they left. They got jobs where you could make dough. Uh and I had the thankfully the backup of my parents and the fact that I, you know, socked away every dime I made and bought a place. Um, so I was able to do it. So um, you know, and then so I worked for this guy, um, and we had this amazing roster of talent. Um, you know, all tons of writers on Saturday Night Live. Uh, we worked with Susie Esman from uh from Curb Your Enthusiasm, who was just, you know, getting huge, and uh uh Jennifer Jennifer Hudson, who was Dream Girls and Blowing Up and becoming a star. And there was some Samantha B, who was on the Daily Show, and then you know, if you know her now as having her own show. Um, and we were working with all of these amazing young kind of talent coming out of New York. And, you know, we were we were getting them jobs on TV and launching their television shows and and casting and you know, doing all that, and my you know, primary area of interest was comedy. Um so while my boss was getting them television shows, I started booking them in clubs and in theaters and for uh corporations. And I discovered that the corporations, you know, they asked Willie Sutton, you know, why do you rob banks? And he said that's where the money is. And I said, you know, these corporations want to have comedians in, especially clean comedians, and they have tons of dough. And you know, they ask how much someone costs, and you can always say, Well, how much do you have? And they would tell me, and I'd give them somebody, you know, correct to put in. And I just started booking um all of these, you know, comedians of corporations. And eventually, um, you know, after three and a half years of doing this, my boss, who was this wonderful woman, came to me and said, Listen, I need your help because I um I I've been going to Whoopi Goldberg's television uh uh shows. She hasn't been on the road, and I've been going to her shows all this time, and I have a family, I can't really go anymore. Can you go and be kind of like her guy and cover shows? And I said, sure. Because that's what I learned. Always say yes, you know. Um so I started going on the road with Whoopi in 2002 or three, and basically have been on the road with her ever since. And it was just because I was the right guy at the right place at the right time. So it's all luck to answer your question. It's like just always be there and always say yes. Um and then the same thing happened with, you know, all of the other comedians we represented. Like, um we just I was just always kind of in the room and there, which was cool. And then one of the one of the fun ones I got to do is I went out to LA uh when I was just out in the mail room and I was just starting to do all of this stuff, and uh, we had become friendly, and she introduced me to the comedian that night who was Mitch Hedberg, um who you know is he's an absolute legend. Yeah, legend. This is right before uh right before he passed away. It was like maybe three or four weeks before when he was on the show. Um, but it was like and the second, like I'm in the room with these like guys who I'm just I just like idolize. Sure. And I'm like, I I I want to be in this business. This is fun. This is great, you know? And uh yeah, it's kind of funny because you you uh the work the work is during the day, is sort of during the day. But the real work is like being with these people at night, going to the shows, being with the buyers, being with the comedians. That's the that's the actual job. And you basically just want to be someone that can tolerate.

Tushar Saxena 34:16

So all that experience you had doing the behind-the-scenes jobs, all those, you know, all those desk jobs, that really prepared you then for this portion of hey, you gotta learn how to gladhand people, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:28

Pretty much. It's like it it it that is I was the world's worst assistant. I was terrible. Larry and I always joke that you know, I don't know how to use a whiteboard. And you didn't know what a whiteboard was.

Larry Samuels 34:41

I didn't even know what to use it. You didn't know what it was.

SPEAKER_00 34:45

It's true. And I was literally terrible at the correspondence, at the writing letters, at the you know, uh but the clients loved me, the buyers loved me, and the agents loved me and could always trust me. So even though I was terrible at all of the stuff, you know, you like the actual job, like if you read the job description of all the multitasking and the scheduling and you know, all the stuff that's the actual job, I was abysmal. And the one thing I learned is that all of the guys that made it, guys and girls who made it to Agent, they were terrible at being an assistant. Oh, that's interesting. And the ones that were really good at being assistants are shitty agents.

Larry Shea 35:32

So talk talk about the job because that's key. Like, you know, we're talking about what a what an amazing accomplishment and what a professional you became, quote unquote professional. And you know, you have to do this job. So are you getting calls from people to book your talent, basically, or are you shopping your talent? And when you make those deals, are they, I'll take any deal for this client, but this one will only do, you know, Radio City Music Hall type of things? Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

So the answer is yes. There are certain clients that you know only wanna only want to work in a certain spot in a certain place at a certain time for a certain amount of money. And then there's Gilbert Gottfried, where someone calls me and said, Gilbert, I have a job for you, but before I hang the phone up, he's like, Oh, and book me at the Motel 6. Wait, wait, I I got two Gilbert, I got two Gilbert stories that are funny. So he was a so you know, again, legendary comedian that everybody knows, and he's he's been a William Morris client his entire career. From the time he was, I think he was 16 or 17 when he first got on stage. So he's and he's like in his 60s now. He's not a young man, right? No, no. He's been so anyway, so oh, handsome is comedian. So uh I'll well I'll get to that. So so the so the he is notoriously cheap. Like, notoriously cheap. Like, if you ever want to have fun, go watch his documentary. He leaves hotels. He he has all the hotel soap from every hotel he's been in over the past 45 years. It's amazing. He has every dime he ever made. He has every dime he ever made. So um I I I I had to he was playing somewhere and I had to book him in a hotel. And I'm like, Gilbert, where do you want to stay? The Marriott or the Hilton? And he goes, I don't know. Book me in the cheapest place you can where I don't have to sleep with a rifle. Which is great. So my favorite Gilbert story is I'm working at the desk and I'm working, it's like I it's a long day, and you you work 10-hour days when you're at the when you're at uh the desk. You yes, you start at you start at 9 30, but you basically work until whenever everybody goes home, and you're working on LA time, so it's you know it could be nine o'clock or whatever. So it's late at night. And uh I get a call. Do you guys remember the Boston Phoenix? They were like the village voice of Boston. Not really. Not really. No.

Larry Samuels 37:59

But for the purposes of this conversation, I do absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

So I get a call, um, and uh they say, uh, you know, are you Gilbert Gottfried's agent? I go, yeah, you know.

Larry Samuels 38:12

Not who wants to know.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Uh I should I should have said it. I even later to ask more questions. I was like, oh boy, yes. So they go, um, well, I'm, you know, so-and-so, so-and-so from the Boston Phoenix, and we just want to let you know that we ran a contest and over all of Greater New England, and we have named Gilbert Gottfried as the least sexy man in the world. Wow. Who did he run against? Do you know?

Larry Samuels 38:45

I I I was it a write-in ballot or were there other contestants?

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Evidently he won going away. I don't know. All right. So I start cracking up. So I go, okay. And he's like, well, we would like to interview him, we'd like to do whatever. So I call Gilbert and I go, Well, I have good news in bed. The good news is you won an award. So I tell him, and he laughs his, he thinks this is the funniest thing in the world. So he gets he gets interviewed. It gets whatever. I I get he goes on Conan promoting this. He goes on, he's on Stern all the time at the time, and he's talking about it. Yeah, I got so much booking, so many, so much play out of this, it's crazy. Like he started doing cyber. So anyway, it was like it was a huge, great thing. So, cut to the following year, um, you know, that had all died down, and I forgot about it a little bit. And I get a call from the Boston Phoenix. And, you know, hey Jeff, it's so-and-so, so-and-so. I'm like, Oh, how are you doing? He's like, Well, listen, I have bad news. Uh so anyway, he gives me he gives me the information he's going to give me, and then I call Gilbert. And I say, Gilbert, I have uh I have also bad news and good news. The bad news is that you didn't win the award for least sexy man in the world. He goes, Oh, that is bad news. And I go, well, the other news is that they've named the award the Gilbert Godfrey Least Sexy Man in the world.

Larry Samuels 40:18

I felt where you were going. I didn't mean to laugh on your uh punchline.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

It will be called this. So again, I got him a new, you know, but all kind of stuff. But that's just the fun with Gilbert. He's one of those guys who is up for anything.

Tushar Saxena 40:32

You know, so so Jeff, look, obviously you've had a very, very, you've had a very fun career thus far.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

Uh up until this moment, yeah. Yeah, it's had moment, it's at its moment.

Tushar Saxena 40:44

All right, it's at its moment, fine. Now everything is up to the other. Yeah, this is not that moment.

Larry Samuels 40:50

How else, you know, as we begin to you know pivot towards uh giving you your day back, um, you know, uh what are some of the other things you've seen along the way that that have changed? Like how has the industry evolved along the way?

SPEAKER_00 41:05

That's awesome. That's the awesome part. It hasn't. It's the same business from when William Morris got off the boat in 1898. Wow. Like it's here's a famous person. Here, here's a famous person. I would like them to show up somewhere and then they will get paid for it. Now, how has that changed? Now they do it by Zoom sometimes. Now they might, you know, satellite in. But it's all the same thing. It's literally the same business. And I almost think that aside from that, it's one of those rare disruption-proof businesses. Um, because the disruptions only benefit the person doing it. Like, it's not much of an outside disruption. Like the only the only part of it that's like disruptible is um you know you know, people going directly to talent. But I have now worked with so much talent, and the thing I have learned is they have no interest in that. They want someone to handle things for them. And uh it's been that way for 120 years. Like they just it they they they just don't want to deal with it. It's like you pay for a service, you know.

Tushar Saxena 42:13

So if you have one piece of advice, I mean let's let's put aside being always available. If you have one piece of advice for the thing, too sure.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

I have different advice for you than I would have for the other two.

Larry Samuels 42:25

But it's a long, separate, private conversation that we really shouldn't have on the air.

SPEAKER_00 42:30

No, no. There's an adage in the business, which is um you go through four four or five stages of a career, which is which can be in any business, which is like, who the hell is Jeff Lesh? And then get me Jeff Lesh, and then get me a young Jeff Lesh, and then who the hell is Jeff Lesh? What stage are you at now, Jeffrey? Where are you? Uh would you guys like to buy some supplements?

Tushar Saxena 42:57

I'm always looking for salesman, Jeff.

SPEAKER_00 42:59

Exactly. Someone get me Jeff Lesh. My advice are that things haven't changed. You always want to be the, oh crap, get me that guy. You always want to be when someone turns around and they need something, you always want to be the person that can provide them with what they need, even if they don't know they need it. Like you, you there should never be an instance. The second you're not someone's first phone call, then it starts to fade. Like you want to be the person they call for the advice, you want to be the person that they call for um the biggest thing to the smallest thing. And if you're that person, you'll always be in demand. Interesting. And you know, that's kind of that's kind of how I would say it. You just you want to be that guy. And and I guess the like if your friend calls you and says he wants to interview you for a reason.

Larry Samuels 43:47

You want to make girls that the the the the question I'll end on. Yeah, if there is somebody out there who is nineteen, twenty years old and they're trying to figure out what their path is going ahead. You know, A, you know, would you recommend that they give it a shot? And how would you recommend that they get started?

SPEAKER_00 44:10

Okay. Um again a treatment rate of 99%. So many thousands of people who came, you know, walked in front of me with a mail card and then went to do something else. Or worked with me at MVC and then went to do something else. It is it's really a perseverance game and you have to have the wherewithal and the hacking of you know understanding family. We had Harvard lawyers come in. People who went to Harvard Law School and it would last three months. It would last three months and they'd walk in anybody Ivy League anybody who wants to go into the entertainment business who went to an Ivy League school I'm like get out of here. Just go away. It's an industry of C students it really is. It's an industry of really people who love entertainment but did crappy in school go do something. If you are a a an Ivy League person with a with an unbelievable pedigree who busted his butt no matter where you are from if you like end up in the entertainment version of business you fail. Like you should be out of changing the world. I really believe that like give me a guy give me a girl from a state school who was a C student who busted her ass over someone from like a well-known college any day of the week. Wow because that's not the skill set it's not the skill set you got you want to you want someone who's willing to bust their ass you're willing to you want somebody who's willing to put clients first above all else and you know and and be a relationship person who you know is someone that you want to high-five at midnight after you know at a comedy show. You don't want you know it's not it's not for everybody. And the money doesn't come until deep into it. As opposed to other you know there's other perks I mean you get two weeks off at Christmas and you know the whole industry shuts down and you know Larry always makes fun of me that I spend the month of December in Europe. Well you do right I do that's true and you go to work at 10 and you leave at four and you read the New York Times from one until three I do um like you know and the perks are you're at you know like I'll get a call from the head of music uh say meet me in my box meet me in my box at Madison Square Garden we're going to the Rihanna concert tonight or we're going to the Tom Petty concert making rest in peace. But like all of that happens like the perks are the fun of the job. There is not a financial reward key for much longer than other high profile jobs if that makes sense.

Larry Samuels 47:01

So I guess the the takeaway is hustle, perseverance, find a way to get to that door but in the end it is absolutely worth it to put words into your mouth it feels like that's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

I have had nothing but fun and if I didn't do all of these things I never would have met you guys. Right. So which is a special part of it too. Well wait a minute if I didn't do all of those things I wouldn't have met you guys I was meant to say the same thing.

Larry Samuels 47:36

Well with that Jeffrey um you know thank you for spending time with us today. You know it's I've had the pleasure of knowing you for a long time. I I know your story is a very interesting one and hopefully for everybody else they they appreciated you and appreciate you just as much as I do.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

So oh what a sweet guy with a sweetheart. He is Jeff he is a sweetheart.

Larry Samuels 48:03

You guys should work with him on a radio we'll get right or or or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Jeff thank you so much for calling it has been an absolute pleasure.

Larry Samuels 48:14

Bye bye. Thanks James Jeff appreciate you well well that was my friend Jeff as uh again you guys knew him previously but his inside stories and a lot of the the stuff that he ran through I knew those stories so I may have cheated a little bit in terms of uh pushing the conversation in certain ways but um you know what did you think Larry what what were your thoughts?

Larry Shea 48:37

I think I think when I when I hear Jeff tell these stories it's about that one little thing right that one little break and then it starts the long and winding road from one thing leading to another and I think the most important things Jeff talks about in this interview are just being the person that everybody needs right like that is such an important thing is to be the person that people are like where is Jeff Lesh? Get me Jeff Lesh right I mean that's just the most important thing I take out of the thing who the hell is Jeff Lesh? Who the hell is Jeff Lesh? Right that was a you know great story because you know I think that's what it's about. I mean I I I look at today's you know young workforce people who are trying to find their dream job that's really who we're who we're trying to reach here. And I just say to myself you know do they know how to get that opportunity? And when that opportunity presents do they know how to take advantage of it and I think that's the one thing that we've you know all been able to do in our careers and I'm hoping that people do it today. And the other thing I want to mention about the interview which is fascinating is Jeff talks about um the the opportunity of privilege right that he was given the opportunity because he had the support of his family to go and pursue these things. And I think that's important but I don't think it it should be a detriment when you're going after your dreams. You know because if you want it bad enough like Jeff said just keep going after it. You gotta want it. And if you don't want it that's fine too you can go find something else to do. But Jeff really took the bull by the horns when it was presented to him and I think that's fascinating.

Tushar Saxena 50:10

And the one thing I'll I'll pick up on that is say that not only did he not only did he pick up on the opportunities that he had, but he had fun with them as well. That's an important part of any career that you have right so it shouldn't simply be a matter of yeah you're going there for a paycheck etc part of it should be you know you love what you're doing and he loves what he does. It oozes out of every statement he makes which is which is why I love having conversations with him. He's such a great storyteller but he knows how to tell a joke and he knows that he's having fun and he understands that yeah he's a guy who's had a lot of opportunity come his way and he's taken advantage of that opportunity but most of all he's had a great deal of fun getting to know the people he works with which is which is which is basically what you're gonna do right when you if you're not gonna have fun in what you do why do it yes and and you know the other thing that that I'll share is you know Jeff is is very entertaining.

Larry Samuels 51:01

I I make fun of him all the time that he works from you know 10 until three with two hours for lunch and plenty of time for the New York Times but um you know Jeff is a a really good person um and he made a comment about integrity and things of that nature and and the thing that I'll express is you know I think you have to have a little bit of ego to to step into you know any competitive environment where you have to you know have the the strength to persevere and push through etc etc but but moving beyond you know that little bit that you have to have he really doesn't have much beyond that meaning he doesn't take things too seriously he rolls with things as you know they come his way um and you know I think his demeanor of being somebody who kind of rolls with it all the time in every walk of life has been incredibly incredibly helpful to him so he's just uh genuinely a good guy yeah and that matters with relationships which we saw in all of his stories right is that it's all about I knew this guy and they told me about this job and so when you talk about being a good guy you can't unemphasize that enough right it's about getting along with people because most of the jobs I've received you know have come from word of mouth a buddy telling a buddy and someone getting it to me.

Larry Shea 52:22

I mean that's that's just how life works. So you gotta be a good person even when no one's looking and you know opportunity will hopefully present itself.

Larry Samuels 52:30

That's exactly right and you know he he is that guy where I would have parties and I'd be worried about you know there are all these different groups coming together with different factions and this one likes this and this one likes that is everybody gonna get along when I would have parties like that the first person I would call is Jeff and say Jeff you need to come work the room and he's a freaking genius when it comes to that he's a glue guy. Yeah he's a good guy to have at a party guy for sure so he he is doing exactly what he should be doing for a living and loving living and l and loving every single second of it. So easy for you to say yeah yeah exactly I'm tired it was a long conversation I'm worn out already so with that our thanks go out to Jeff for sharing his story with us and all of you for joining this episode of No Wrong Choices. We post about once a week so please follow us here or on Twitter and Instagram at thefellasNWC. You can also check out our website at nowrongchoices.com for additional and classic content. Until next time remember there are no wrong choices we learn from every experience