No Becomes Yes! for Voice Over Artist Shelly Shenoy (Part 2)

Larry Samuels 0:02

Hello and welcome to No Wrong Choices, a podcast about the adventures of life that explores the career journeys of successful and interesting people. I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by the other fellas Tushar Saxena and Larry Shat. If you've been enjoying our show, please support us by following us on your favorite podcasting platform and by giving us a five-star rating. You can also look for us on social media by searching for No Wrong Choices. And to learn more about us, please visit our website at NoWrongchoices.com. This episode is part two of our conversation with voiceover artist, director, and coach Shelly Shinoi. Part one focused on the journey up to her first audition. We'll now learn about how she broke into the business, which is a really, really fun story. Larry Shea is the resident disciple of Shelly. You are once again the right person to lead us into this discussion.

Larry Shea 0:53

Yeah, let the auditioning begin, I think, is the best way to start this episode because, you know, I really admire her patience that she had to get her footing in New York City, and we heard a lot about that in part one of this interview. And in part two, she's finally ready to break through and network and become that business, right? I think we're about to hear some exciting stories about her big break. Um, you know, uh I won't give it away, but I think you want to stay tuned because there's a lot of great stories here about how she broke in, how she did it, who she knew, when she knew them, and why it was important that these relationships took place. So I'm excited about it for sure.

Tushar Saxena 1:36

I think a lot of what we'll learn about in part two is disappointment is a relative term when it comes to Shelley Shanoy, right? So, like, you know, she might go out for one role, get rejected for it, but it turns out that the producer is like, you know what? I think it actually be better for the second role that you have. What do you think about that? And then, you know, obviously the fur the name of part one was just say yes. So, yeah, a lot of her is just saying yes to that next role. So, I mean, look, Shelly Shinoy knows what she's doing. She is absolutely a pros pro. She is a lot of fun.

Larry Samuels 2:09

Without a doubt. And I guess the the cliffhanger that I will leave out there is that Shelly is a great Courtney love. Stay tuned for more. We pick things up with Larry Shea pivoting the conversation towards Shelly's early auditioning process.

Larry Shea 2:24

So that allowed you to get your footing. And how did so what an audition here or there? How did that begin?

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Yeah, so I started um I started meeting people, I started auditioning for local theater things and just started to like really do it.

Larry Shea 2:39

And I mean, you're a networker, right? I mean, this is what you do.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

And this is not, there was no online. I didn't even have a computer, you know, like there was nothing online. It was all networking. Right. And so I was meeting people, auditioning for shows and gigs. Where'd you get those?

Larry Shea 2:55

Village Voice, what what are you looking at?

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Uh yeah, it was more like, you know, through people, like, oh, I'm I'm waitressing at this place and I know this person, and they're doing, you know, comedy gigs here and maybe talk to them. And then and then some of it was newspaper stuff, like find it in backstage. Sure. And so it was a combo of networking and looking things up. And um, and I ended up, um, I did a couple you couple like local theater shows and stuff like that, but what I ended up really launching into was um I I joined sort of co-created and joined an all-female sketch comedy troupe called The Brothel. And we started doing shows all over the city. Wow. And we started taking off. And that was what ended up knocking on the door of the voiceover world.

Tushar Saxena 3:47

So then, great transition. So, what was your first voiceover gig? And how did your time with the brothel then lead to the voiceover work?

SPEAKER_01 3:55

Fascinating. So I got to meet a ton of New York City comics, and some of the male comics were making it with agents. I didn't have an agent yet. It took me years to get an agent. Um, they had agents, they were doing voiceover work. Like it was like, wow, they're doing commercial gigs, they're actually making money. Meanwhile, the rest of the lot of us were just a bunch of broke comedians that all knew each other and trying, we're trying to, we're all trying to make it. And what ended up happening was a bunch of theater uh of comic com comedic groups, comedy, comedy tropes, uh, were hired by one producer, we were one of them, to do a show for MTV. And the show was a behind the scenes producers and m original MTV VJ roast.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

And it was a live performance. This was before roasts were televised, and so it was a live comedic roast of original producers and original um VJs. And so that you know, somebody was like, Oh, the girls from the brothel, they gotta be in this, and da-da-da-da-da. Somebody was putting this all together. And um and I, you know, so we all get there. We had like a day to put our stuff together, and then a and then the next day was the show. And so on the day of the first day where we were just kind of mapping everything out, how this roast was gonna go, um, I was pointed at by one of the senior comics who had seen a handful of the brothel shows, and he pointed right at me and he goes, You're gonna, you're gonna roast Courtney Love.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Oh, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Okay, and I was like, What the fuck? Like, roast Courtney Love. Like, hey, you know, I'm like I'm a sketch artist. I've done a little bit of stand-up, but like I wasn't how the hell do you roast Courtney Love?

Larry Shea 5:51

There's some material there. And I'm just oh I was thinking to work with.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

I'm sitting there and I'm like racking my brain, and it was late, late, late that night when I still had nothing, and I like shot out of bed and I knew that I had it. The only way to truly roast Courtney Love is to show up at the roast as Courtney Love.

Larry Samuels 6:15

Yes, and that's exactly what I did.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Um, okay, now to be fair, I did not know that Courtney Love was actually gonna be there.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

Um, she was I mean, everybody there, this place this place was packed, and I did Courtney, like I just I was like, ah, you know, like I just did all the like, ah, motherfuckers, like all the stuff. Where it was just like, woo! You know, she's just screaming and drunk and doing all this. And um, she was laughing, she was cackling, she was laughing harder than anybody, right? So I was like, my work here is done. Drop the mic, I'm good, you know. And someone approached me after the show. He walked up to me and he said, So, hey, you know, he introduced himself. He goes, So you're a voiceover artist. And I went, This is exactly what I said. Oh, yeah, no, I wish. I mean, I heard that those guys can pay their rent. And he goes, No, no, no, that that wasn't a question. And oh, interesting. Yeah, and then he goes, Do you know how and he introduced like himself as his career and he and he was like, I work with Lucasfilms, I do all the video games. I like I was like, Oh, you're one of the guys that I heard about. You are killing it in this industry. And he was like, I am, I am. Um, and he was like, Yeah, but you've you've got it, you've got it. Um, he was like, Let's exchange numbers, let's become friends, and uh, whenever I see something that's right for you, I'll try to get you in the door.

Larry Shea 7:46

Amazing connection.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

Yeah, we actually became friends and he got me in the door of my very first audition.

Larry Shea 7:52

We always, you know, we these these moments come up all the time. I mean, what a pivotal moment that he was there. He saw you, that you had the idea and all the things that had to come together. And look, it opened up your whole world. So what's next? How did how did you start going to auditions? You have your foot in the door now, he's making recommendations for you. How does that work?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Oh, so what happened was is he called me one day and he goes, um, he was like, Hey, uh, I've got this thing, I've got an idea, and I think you're gonna be perfect for it. I it was it was something that I was auditioning for a different part of, but um, they're doing an audition and and uh there's a princess. There, it's can you do a princess voice? Like, is that something that you think you can do? And I and on the phone, I was like, uh, hmm. Well, hello, little birds. Oh my! You know, and I was like, I think, I mean, I don't know, does that sound like a princess to you? And he was like, fuck yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 8:50

I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Um, and so I go the next day to this audition. I'm in the voiceover studio. This was the first time I experienced the what happens when you're looking at producers on the other side of the window that are talking about you but not pressing the talk back button. That was my first experience. So, like, I get the script, right? It was to audition for Princess Zara to be the voice of the doll. So there a doll was being sold in Great Britain and South Africa of this princess and the DVD, DVD, see how long ago this was? The DVD being sold, the um the DVD cartoon of her life story came with the doll in the box. So they needed to have this animated life story of her. So I was auditioning for Princess Sara. And um, so they gave me the script and I did my hello little birds voice, you know, and they're just looking at me like, nope, you know, through the window, and they're they're talking about me. And I was just like, ugh. And then the guy, the producer, Frank Drucker, the producer, presses the button and he goes, So uh listen, um, you know, we heard that you can do anything. So we're wondering if uh we threw a couple other scripts at you, what you know, if you would want to take a stab at them. And I was like, Yeah, absolutely. So he throws a bunch of other things at me and I just kept reading for whatever it was. And three days later they called me and they said, Hey, um, we're calling from the Zara, Princess Zara um gig. Uh they didn't say gig, but you know, um, and uh we just wanted to let you know that you did not book Princess Zara. And I was like, Oh, okay. Wow, you really you really do call people and tell them no, you know.

Larry Samuels 10:27

Like, this really does happen in New York.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah, like, oh wow, okay. Um, and she goes, but you did book her mother, her grandmother, her sister, her brother, her handmaiden, and two of her kidnappers.

Tushar Saxena 10:40

I'm like, wow. But you booked the rest of the script.

SPEAKER_01 10:44

Yeah, I booked seven roles in the cartoon. And when I showed up on day one, um, you learn that all of the characters were African, and there was an African dialect coach there.

Larry Shea 10:58

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

And they needed the timber, they wanted the timber of my voice and the versatility of all the different characters that I could do because I was saving them hours of time and casting.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

And um, and so they had this dialect coach there for me, and it was an earth-shattering experience for me. I had never had more fun in my life, and they paid me per character.

Larry Shea 11:24

Oh my gosh. Oh wow. Yeah.

Larry Samuels 11:26

So the lottery.

SPEAKER_01 11:27

Like, come on, like my very first voice ever job. No one's judging you. It's a safe place. They're telling you to just wing it and have and just do your thing. I felt totally like I was in my zone, and then I got to perform it and just live the dream. And then they sent me money, like good money, like great check.

Larry Shea 11:48

I'm so glad you just talked about letting you do your thing because I I want to get back to your career and the arc, but this is important because I'm sure people listening to this podcast right now are told some, hey, you have a great voice, you should do voiceover. Hey, you, you know, oh, I love your voice. Oh, what a deep voice. What a nice voice, pretty voice. Yeah, and that's not what this is. Like when I took lessons from you, the thing that I would remember, and and it always stuck with me, is when I watched you work, your acting was such a part of it. Your mind, your creativity was such a you embodied these characters, and that for me was always uh just a leap that as a as a mere mortal I couldn't make, you know. I could do announcer voice till the cows came home. But to to be seven characters in a in an animation or a video game, I mean, that's what you have to do, correct?

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Oh yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Larry Shea 12:42

I mean a hundred percent. So how do you I guess it was just you were on stage your whole life. Your your acting training really prepared you for this this pinnacle moment in your life to get in that booth and just wing it and have fun, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Well, but Shay, but here's the thing though. Yes, everything you're saying is true. But the real thing, the real place where I felt like I was elbowing my way into a career somehow was my brothers. I was raised in the 80s and 90s with three older brothers who were, you know, from the 80s and 90s place, and these three clowns, it was competing against the fastest improvisers I had ever known in my life, because they're all hilarious, and so was my sister. And so the edginess of like having to be such a fast thinker, and then like and the surprises was like I was no, it was nothing out of the norm at dinner in my family for somebody to be like, Can you pass the potato? You know, and it was just like you know, and then nobody talks about it. And I'm like, Oh yeah, sure, sure. You know, and like you're just you're just trying to get a laugh.

Larry Samuels 13:59

That's life training. I mean, that is life training. We've been doing it prop for decades at that point.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

That's exactly right. And it was just quick thinking and throwing it out there. And my brothers would say, uh, no, you can take that further, you know, and like so I'd be like, I could Japan God.

Tushar Saxena 14:17

So they were they were your first acting coaches, they were your first acting coaches.

SPEAKER_01 14:20

Yeah, they were like, they were the like dream team of comedy, and I had to make them laugh in order to know. Like, there was no like make your girlfriends laugh, like in the 80s or not. No, no, no, no, no. You had to make three teenage boys that were the most popular kids in school. They were my brothers, and I my daily role in my family was like, who can I get? I got a surprise, I got a funny one, I got a good one. And I would be slammed if it wasn't and praised if it was, and then we all move on.

Larry Samuels 14:53

Wow. Wow. Wow. It's really that. So, so where so you you you you pull off this unbelievable performance. I assume you you you've now thrown open the door to the industry. What happens next? Like, what does this set you up for? And where do you head?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

That's a great question. So I had nothing. I had my friend in the voiceover industry. I still couldn't get an agent or any reps to call me back. Um, I didn't, so I didn't have any representation. So there was no auditions to be had. All auditions at the time came through, there were no online platforms. It all came through an agent. And so what actually ended up happening was that producer called me three months later and he said, Hey, Shelly, listen, um, I'm wondering if you can voice a boy, if you can do the voice of a little boy. And immediately you know where I come from, man. You know my answer is like, yeah, of course. Like in my mind, I'm like, no. Like, I've got to be a good idea. Name a boy, I can do it. Yeah.

Larry Samuels 15:54

What nationality is it?

SPEAKER_01 15:56

Yeah, yeah, forget it. Like I had never thought about this in my life. But the only thing in my mind was, I've seen The Simpsons. Like, I know, I know that Bart's a girl. Of course I can do a boy. Like, and no, and I hadn't yet learned how to properly do a boy's voice, but I was like, I can try. And so, of course, my answer is gonna be yes. So he goes, Okay, so we're doing a nine-part DVD series for hooked on phonics that's gonna be sold in every Kmart. And um, there's a segment on one of the DVDs called Erin Knows Everything, and we want you to come in and audition for Aaron. And so I'm like, okay, the audition was like in a day or two. I show up to the audition thinking fully it's gonna be a room full of women, because obviously, right? And it was uh there were no less than 25 eight-year-old boys in the waiting room.

SPEAKER_02 16:46

Really? Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Not a single adult girl. Yeah, and me. I'm like 20 years old. I'm sitting in there, like, no, you gotta be fucking kidding me, right? But immediately I just start listening. Like to the kids, like, hey dad, you know, just like stuff where you're just listening to them, talking to their parents, talking about the role, talking about what their day, reading the lines, and just listening to their inflections and their pacing and their their tonality and all of this. And I didn't know exactly how to capture the tone back then, but what I did know was how to do the performance. And so I walked in, they they auditioned me for Aaron. I did the audition, then they had me read for a couple of other things, you know, just because they knew me from Zara. So they were like, oh, try this, this, this. And I left, and three days later they called me and they said, Hey Shelly, we just wanted to let you know you did not book the role uh of Aaron in a hooked off pile. I'm like, what is the deal with you guys? Um, but they go, but we're wondering if we can pay you full price to come back and coach the 11-year-old girl that booked the role. It's just that her voice was better, but we want her to do everything you did in your otherwise flawless audition.

Larry Samuels 18:05

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

And I was like, and without a second of a hesitation, I went, absolutely.

Larry Shea 18:10

Because you're a teacher.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Because I knew I was like, yo, I'm a teacher. Yeah, but you're a teacher. I knew it. And so, um, and then they said, Oh, and by the way, you booked the narrator on all nine DVDs. And I was like, There it is.

Larry Samuels 18:22

Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

And so I did, so I was like, okay, so um they had me come in, they scheduled me for two hours with the kid, and we were wrapped in 28 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 18:36

And I'm telling you though, like without sounding like like a Dingleberry, I had no idea that like it never crossed my mind that I had a niche here, that I had that I had something. It was turning around and looking at the faces of the producers in the in the audio area just outside of the booth through the glass windows, when one of them said, I believe that's a rap. And and I turned around, I was like, Oh, cool, you know, high five the kid. They had me scheduled for two, it was like two hours and change, and we were done. It was like 27 minutes total. And I turned around and I looked at their faces and they were like just staring at me. And I was like, Oh, I wonder if, huh, maybe there maybe there's something here, you know? And uh, and then that was it. And then it was just, you know, so my second booking ever, my second voiceover booking ever was my first directing gig ever.

Tushar Saxena 19:34

Oh my goodness, Shelley.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

So yeah. So yeah.

Tushar Saxena 19:38

Shell, I want to ask, is is that part of the is that part of the deal? Is that whenever someone calls for a job? I'm look, I don't think it's I don't think it probably goes for everybody, but has that been your attitude always that whenever you're offered a job, no matter how menial it is or how big it is, the answer is yes. Always do the job.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

At the beginning, maybe, because there are caveats to this, Larry. Like for real, um you gotta be careful, right? You don't want to be taken advantage of. But like, if you know, you don't want to say, like, yeah, I'll do an audiobook for 500 bucks, you're going to get killed.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

Right? Because it's gonna be three months of work if you've never done this before. Right. Um, so yes, there are caveats to it. You've gotta know the industry, you've gotta know that that this is gonna be a worth it, yes. You know, because if it's like somebody's paying you, you know, 50 bucks to read a sentence, absolutely do it. You know, at the very beginning, like sure, yeah. How long is it gonna take you to read the sentence? Like, take these little gigs, don't get taken advantage of. You take advantage of the opportunities that are coming to you and start building from there.

Tushar Saxena 20:47

All right, so Shell, this is too share again.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Tushar Saxena 20:49

How do you how do you know not to take it? No, it's all right. How do you know not to be taken advantage of? How do you know not to how not to be taken advantage of?

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Well, I'll tell you not, Larry. Um, the best way, I mean, well, so I cr like the NYC VO coach, like this cat this coaching thing that I sort of created where I end up being a mentor to people, it's it's the answer that I give to all of them. It's experience and education, right? So you've got to have a mentor or an educator who knows the industry backwards and forwards, who can advise you on whether to say yes or no to gigs like that. And the other way is by looking at the gigs themselves and you compare and contrast all of them, right? Like, okay, the majority of these gigs are around this long, will be used in this location, roughly, like the whatever media forum it is, and will take this long to record, and they all pay around this much. You're you start to pick up on norms. But like, if like somebody asks you to read the tagline. Of a trident commercial. Well, this is a household name brand, and you're saying it's for a national spot and they're gonna give me a dollar. Fuck you. Wait, so like you start to piece together what name brands mean, what the media usage means, how much they're asking you to do, how long it's gonna take you to do it, and um and you start putting them all together. So it's experience and education because it does help to have a mentor at the start. Does that make sense, Touchar?

Larry Shea 22:24

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah that that makes a lot of sense. Um I I guess I want to ask about your instrument and and your process. Like, you know, you're saying yes to things that you don't necessarily know that you can do, but you must be, you know, practicing, you know, shredding, doing what you need to do to get there. It's gonna be different for everyone. It sounds like you had a world career building up to it and it it comes easy for you. What do you recommend for people it doesn't come easy for? And how do you take care of your instrument? I mean, we all wake up with, you know, gurgly voice certain days. Like, how do you get through all that? That's that's an occupational hazard for someone like you.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Oh, that's so funny. I get asked a lot of uh I get asked this a lot by by new students, like when I'm doing a career counseling session with somebody, they're like, How do you do your day?

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:16

And so the best way to answer your exact question is by walking you through my morning, which is in the morning, I sound like a turd, right? It's just every morning, guys, everyone. I sound I sound like a a hint of sexy turd, right? Where it's just like two shark. Yeah, like exactly like two shark, actually. And and so it's like like I'll be like really tired. I just got that. He's he's here, he's he showed up. Um, so like if in the morning, right? Like if it's like, oh, you know, I've got this like scratchiness, and like my voice isn't all the way there yet, what I'll do is I'll look through all my auditions due that morning, and I'll start with the richer, sleepier reads, like anthems, right? You gotta know the advertising industry now.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

So I'll start with like anthemic reads where you're reading and it's just this is just how I sound when I wake up in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 24:10

Right? There's a lot of scratch, there's a lot of texture, right? Then I move on to the classic commercials where, you know, um this weekend, you know, I don't know, well, like if it's like uh introducing the spring edition Fearless Flyer from Trader Joe's, from pitted dark sweet cherries and organic pomegranate seeds. So you're, you know, like you're going through the classic commercials, you got a little bit more conversational, right? Then I move on from there to the funny ones where my brain's actually awake. I've had a little bit of coffee, my voice is really sharp, and I can improv like a beast. And so then I'll do the really silly or the the animated last when my voice is actually warmed up naturally through the process of auditioning every morning. Um, and I'll do the the slightly harder, more complicated, but way more fun auditions, I do them last because I'm warmed up via my morning auditions. Wow. Does that make sense? That's brilliant.

Larry Samuels 25:10

Very, very cool. So so I guess jumping, you know, forward a little bit, you know, when you look back at your journey thus far, what are you know some of the highlight roles? You know, we've talked about how you you broke in, we've talked about how you you started to get established. What are some of the highlights for you experien uh in terms of experiences?

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Um there was a game changer when um I when I booked The Walking Dead. That was a game changer.

Tushar Saxena 25:41

The video game you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Yeah, yeah. It's the video game The Walking Dead by Telltale Games. I booked um a lead role in season three of their game, and um this was an international success. And for the record, I had no idea I booked a lead. I had no idea. And um, but I was just like, I'm here kind of a lot. Like nobody, nobody's nobody tells you. Like, by the way, this is a very important role. They're just like, You're Kate. And I was like, Okay, great, Kate.

SPEAKER_02 26:11

Okay, I'm Kate. Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

And then you just show up and you start working, and then you're like, Kate has a lot of lines. Like, I had no idea what was going on here. Um, and then I saw two or three months into recordings because I didn't know if like other people had more lines, like you figure out who you are, but then you're kind of piecing it together, and then I saw the promo poster, and I was like, wow, there's definitely the lead and the other lead because I knew who they were, and I was like, whoever that character is, that's so cool. They're on the poster. That was that was obviously Kate. I had never seen her before. I was like, look at that smoking hot go-getter, you know, and I didn't put it together like this is clearly Kate in the story. I had no idea because I had never was shown what she looked like.

Larry Shea 26:58

It's amazing they don't tell you what what how involved you're gonna be either, though. That's fascinating.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

I know, right? But think about it. They're coming from inside this massive world, and they assume you're already there with them, right? So, like at no point are they gonna sit you down and be like, hey, kid, just so you know, you're you're gonna be a star after this role. It's gonna be huge.

Tushar Saxena 27:19

You know, it's not like that. Why do they all sound like these old-timey producers?

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Shut me the trap. Why are you allowed?

Larry Samuels 27:28

Perpetually 1948.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

I know, I know. Sorry, sorry. That's apparently that's my voice of the day. And have there is always one for the day. My voice of the day. I love it. This is the one that that keeps showing up today. By the way, I have 76 personalities. So I'm just kidding. Hello? That was a quite that was a question.

Larry Shea 27:46

How many voices you know can you bring to the table?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Oh man, no, I know I said that because I sound like a psycho because you you have these like different voices. Um, no, it's really there's no way to answer that really because like you're not keeping track, but there's a different energy, vocal tone, and sort of like a personality that comes through with every gig you do or every audition you do. Every single audition has its own thumbprint of what's of what's being asked for. And so no two, you know, commercial gigs are the same, and no two animation gigs are certainly the same at all. You know, and so it's really it's it's ever because every gig is so different, every voice and energy and thing that you put in it is so different.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

So countless, really. It's just like really just like pretty countless, you know what I mean?

Tushar Saxena 28:43

I want to ask you a little bit. We want to get into your your your voice coaching in in just a sec, but I do want to kind of uh stick on uh the your your video game voicing. So, which have you found to be more lucrative? Doing animated work, being cartoons and whatnot, or doing uh doing video games?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

Oh, that's a great question. But I wanted to make sure that in my last answer I sounded like a piece of shit.

Tushar Saxena 29:06

I sounded like a pure. You pulled it off and shot a terrible I will I will only answer you if you speak to me as a 1950s voice, you know, uh Broadway producer. You'll be stuck in.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Sorry. I just wanted to make sure you know how many voices there were.

Tushar Saxena 29:21

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yeah, no, um uh so this is tricky, right? Because in the animation world, there are bits and pieces of bit parts in shows, and there's a lot of non-union um animation work. A lot of it is just not union, and there are some gigs that are union, so the union got gigs pay a lot better, um, whether or not you're reoccurring. So it's it's it starts off pretty small, but if you book a gig like an international, you know, freight train like like The Walking Dead was, you'll make great money. But in the meantime, as you're working on animated gigs, how I had done so many video games, I didn't make anywhere near what I made in Walking Dead, and Walking Dead was an eight to ten month gig.

SPEAKER_02 30:14

Wow, wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

We worked on that thing for for a long time, and like, you know, and uh you do one or two records a week, they can't have you for more than four hours because of vocal stress. Uh, I mean, we're screaming, we're screaming, we're in wars, we're running and getting attacked by zombies, that kind of stuff. So, like, you they can't have you for more than four hours.

Larry Shea 30:36

That's yeah, it sounds exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

It's exhausting.

Larry Shea 30:39

Let's talk about the coaching. Um, we we saw that you pretended to be a teacher, so that's good. Yeah, yeah. Pretended to be a waiter. And then the direct the pretended to work in finance, pretended a lot of pretending.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

You gotta fake it till you make it big, baby.

Larry Shea 30:54

That's it. And then obviously directing the the eight-year-old girl to do the part. I mean, that's kind of your first glimmer into oh boy, I could do this and I could do it really well. When did you decide to go off on your own and how did that take place?

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Actually, I didn't choose it. I was with management at the time. I was trying to be Tom Cruise, right? Um, where I was like, I just really want a manager because everyone in New York had a manager, and I was like, I want one of those. But like, if you don't have something to manage, don't get a manager involved. Just work with your agent, okay? Well, I had an agent and I also had a manager, and the management company that I was with, they were like, Oh my God, you have to go union. As soon as you go union, your money is gonna be so much better. Like, you're killing it right now. My non-union agent at that time, after I had I signed with them, I started working with them in 08. Um, and this was like 2011 or 12. And again, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna sound like a just an ass wipe, but they called me mortgage. They just called me more, hey Mortgage, you have got an audition tomorrow.

Larry Shea 32:09

I'm not surprised actually at that show.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Mean meanwhile, I'm like, how come y'all call me mortgage? Like, I was like, why is this? And they were like, honey, honey, you're you're our you're our maker. Like you're you're the maker. You're the one you're the one that you're the guarantee. Yeah, they're like, you're the guarantee. We're gonna get you out. You gotta go out on every audition. And so anyway, and so so meanwhile, I have this management company come in and they go, um, they go, well, you've got to go union, you gotta go union. And I was a I wasn't a must join, I was almost becoming a must-join. I had enough Taft Hartleys for the union to almost join. And if I booked one more Taft Hartley waiver to join the union, that's how you get into the union. You gotta book a bunch of union gigs until you become a regular booker, and then that's when they invite you to join. You can't just like step up to the union and join it, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Um, and I had made three Taft Hartleys. I was on the fence of being a must-join. I booked another union gig, and my management was like, do it, grab it, and I did. You pay the like $3,600 to join, and then watch your phone stop ringing. Because nobody thought through the part where I had a non-union agent, not a union agent, a non-union agent who every so often would get me a union audition and I'd do it and book it and grab another Taft Hartley. Wow. So then um I booked the fourth one, and they were like, do it, do it. And that was at the beginning of that year, that was like February, March. I became a union member, and by May, I was like, so I'm running out of money and my phone's not ringing. What the hell do I do? And your your hands are tied. You've tied your hands now, you can't audition for anything non-union.

Larry Samuels 34:06

And so, how do you get out of that situation? I'm sorry to cut you off.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Yeah, yeah, it's a nightmare, and the only way to get out of that situation is to get signed with a union agency. That's it.

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Or you go to the union. There's two ways, and that's the first. The other way is you become FICOR, which means that you go to the union and you say, I want to not be a full SAG member, I want to be a mostly SAG member, and um, and disallow you guys to punish me if I do anything non-union. I want to be able to legally do union and or non-union jobs at my discretion. And they take away your card, they take away your right to vote, they stop sending you DVDs at the end of the year.

Tushar Saxena 35:01

And that's not worth it then. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 35:04

But then, um, and and here's what happened. During that time between when I decided to go FICOR, because I did not have a union agent, in between the time of going union and finally becoming FICOR, um, was about seven or eight months. And I was tapped. I was like running out of all of my funds. I was living by myself at the time. I was broken up. I was at the end of like, I had just gotten like I was such a kid when I got married, and then it wasn't working out, and I decided to go out on my own and like end it and leave him everything to prove that like I was in it for love, not your money. And I left him everything, including our uh million-dollar apartment on the Upper East Side, everything and went fucking broke in West Harlem, where I moved to, where I was like, oh my god, what do I do? And so when I was pushed to that ultimate brink, and all of that's true, and like we had a pretty amiable like a a nice enough divorce, like I didn't take him for a ride at all. I left him everything and it and it shattered my world into a point of like, I'm so screwed, I better figure something out right now. And what happened was a combination of going FICOR and also my non-union agent in the meanwhile saying, Well, listen, since you can't audition right now, before I went FICOR, since you can't audition right now, do you think maybe you could train the other talent so that we at least have a booker?

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Interesting. Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

And I said, No, like I'm the star. No, I don't want to coach, like, forget it. And they somehow talked me into it. And after I had coached a few different people a few different times, I was like, maybe I'll do a class. And I did a class, and at the the class began, the first person I had no plan for this class. First person walked in front of the mic and started talking. And I went, that's what you do when you audition. That was the first thing I said in a in the first class I taught was that's what you do. And then I went, okay, everybody, uh, get ready to take some notes. And that's how it started. And now I have a whole like actual, it's like it's so structured so that anybody can really truly learn and there's a step-by-step thing. But anyway, um, I went FICOR. I finally decided to become FICOR, and it's that's a pill to swallow at first, but now you realize it's the smartest thing you could ever do. And the very first non-union audition that I went to when I went FICOR had a buyout of $18,000.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

And I walked in, I walked in with like blood in my eyes. You guys, I was so broke at this point, and I was so starved of auditioning for for of not being called to audition for like eight months straight, and then just like randomly coaching here and there, and I was like, I'm back. I was like, I'm back in the game. And I go and I auditioned for this LeVeon Chocolate Diamonds commercial, and um, and I I and snagged it. It was done.

Larry Samuels 38:19

There you go. How many years ago is this?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

This is like uh it's 2011, I think, or 12.

Larry Samuels 38:25

So 2011, you you you break, not not not back in, but you re-establish yourself, and it sounds like you're building out of practice at exactly the same time.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

At the exact same time. And so I was I got back in the game, and my coach, my classes started to sort of take off. Like, like within three months, I think I had a wait list and I was like, this is crazy. Like, maybe I should go a little more. Like, maybe people are get really getting something from it, but like it was, it just took off. And getting back in front of the mic also took off. And being a coach and a director while also being a voice artist regularly behind the mic, these things were secular, like they fed each other. And it was like the Phoenix rising from the disaster of a of a divorce where I was like, Oh, I don't need any money.

unknown 39:16

Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 39:18

You know, and but I but it was that was the Phoenix Rising, where it was like, Nope, I'm gonna do this all on my own through my arts experience and expertise in in this, and I'm going to like take the ball and fucking run with it.

Larry Samuels 39:31

Wow. Wow. So so you know, as we we look at this journey of, you know, learning as a kid and you know, hanging in there and you know, the improv and coming to New York and the breaks and the hustling and all and all this stuff, like with the students that you have, which I imagine range it range in ages, like what is your advice to people who want to break into this business?

SPEAKER_01 39:57

You know, if you asked me this a few years ago, my answer would have been completely different. But this answer is very fresh and very new because we have a very fresh, very new, very different industry now than we did before COVID. And so now the answer is get a mentor, mentor, or a coach. Really, truly, truly, truly, you have to know what you're doing. You've got to get the right equipment. Um, and you don't need to spend a fortune. And if anybody here is looking for free tips, free tips, please just go to the website and absorb the information that's there. It's nycvocoach.com because I filled it with things that people can learn from, even if they're just browsing. Yeah, there's so much information on the site, including a page called Recommendations, where I'll show you how to set up an absolutely gorgeous studio, um, identical to the one I'm working on now, um, for less than 500 bucks.

Larry Samuels 40:54

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_01 40:55

Get to get your equipment, get to learn your equipment, learn how to work your equipment to work for you, and then hit uh get uh know where you're going to audition, have an audition strategy and a momentum strategy, and lay out a career plan and you knock it out step by step.

Larry Samuels 41:12

Interesting. What what's that website again, Shelley?

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Oh, me. I am at nycvocoach.com.

Larry Samuels 41:19

And I'm sure Larry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01 41:21

I trained people all over the world, but I wanted NYC in the name. I just did.

Larry Samuels 41:25

Hey. There's nothing more credible when it comes to acting, etc., etc., than NYC. And I'm sure Larry Shea, you can give a uh a wonderful recommendation to anybody out there listening.

Larry Shea 41:38

Ringing endorsement for sure. Yeah, I mean, I just Shelley, I always marveled at your work and what you do, and we could talk to you all day. So just amazing stuff. We can't thank you enough, really.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

I'm thank you so much for um having me here to just brag for no, I'm it's worth it. It's worth it. It's well worth it. We're talking about it. It's really not, it's really not. I just it just feels like I feel like, oh my gosh, it's humbling, you know, but it's it's also so fun to tell the story, really, because it's not bragging when you think about how many times I was broken eating shit the whole time, you know, and like Absolutely, you gotta keep picking yourself back up.

Larry Samuels 42:15

You should be proud of that.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

And that's exactly that's exactly right. And so it's really, it's it's uh, it's really just the story of making it work. And um, and I, you know, and I believe that if you have intention and you know what you want, your your life will make way for it, even whether or not you even begin taking action. Like if you just start thinking about voiceover stuff, pretty soon voiceover topics are gonna pop into your life. And then you might start searching for stuff, and then more and more voiceover stuff will come into your life. Whether it's voiceover, baking, soccer, law practice, whatever it is that you are intending to do, do it well and learn how to do it right. Don't waste time guessing.

Larry Samuels 43:04

Great advice. Great advice, great advice. Well, Shelly, thank you, thank you, thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01 43:11

Thank you guys. That was so much fun to talk to all the Larry's. You know, Touchar, you were you were pretty cool too.

Tushar Saxena 43:20

I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

I don't want you to, you're just you know, you're hanging in there, and I I support you.

Tushar Saxena 43:26

I thank you. He needs he needs that's basically that's basically what this show is all about. He's trying to support me.

SPEAKER_01 43:32

Excellent, excellent. Thanks, Shelly. Yeah, thanks you guys.

Larry Samuels 43:36

Well, that was a conversation that lived up to all of my expectations. I hope that uh all of you agree. What an incredibly interesting person, and uh, I guess a great example of always say yes when asked a question. Just what great, great stories.

Tushar Saxena 43:52

Uh, real quick, we did learn one thing. She is not from Sheboygan. That is disappointing.

Larry Samuels 43:59

That is disappointing. Disappointing. Shelly Shinoy, not from Sheboy.

Tushar Saxena 44:04

That would have been great.

Larry Samuels 44:05

That is great.

Larry Shea 44:06

So many lessons here. I mean, you know, I I found some of the most fascinating stuff. Yes, that fake it until you make it was used a lot, right? I mean, that's like a major theme in Shelly's career path, which man, it works, you know, fake it till you make it. But the waitressing story about I'm the best waitress because I'm so fast. And she's just like literally, you know, doing what she did at the dining room table growing up, you know? So that's that was fascinating. But um, she gave up everything too, you know. She really, I don't know, took 10 steps back to go 20 steps forward. She gave up everything except her name, which is cool.

Tushar Saxena 44:43

There you go.

Larry Shea 44:44

Um, but just the importance of the waitressing job, too, that she needed to stay in New York so that she could follow her dream. And she didn't even think about her dream for like a year, you know, before she started getting back into it and allowing herself to dream big. And sometimes it's that one pivotal moment that allows you to stay where you need to be to then push forward to achieve your dreams. She could have easily not gotten that job that day and been forced back to whatever Provo Utah or Ohio or wherever, you know, her family was at the moment. So I just found her stick-tuativeness fascinating, her determination, her strength, her courage. I mean, the whole story is just gold.

Tushar Saxena 45:24

I mean, sometimes you gotta you gotta say to yourself, I'm gonna dig my heels in here, and you know, this is where the line is, and I'm gonna move forward from this point. But I will say this never disregard your life experience, right? So with her, her training did not start in classes or whatever. It started around her dining room table with her family, with her brothers, and that's how she got that's how she built her comedic chops, making her brothers and her family laugh. And that is how it that and let's be honest, that's really what built her career in some senses because you know when you're a kid, you love to cut up, you love to make goofy voices, you love to do all that stuff, but you always realize at some point the kid stuff goes away. And it really helps when you're you know, when you're in your 20s and your 30s, and you say, you know what, I still have to be that kind of a goofball, and I can still now hearken back to those moments when I was a kid trying to make my brothers laugh at the at the kitchen table. That is awesome.

Larry Shea 46:22

No question. I mean, that she's built for this, right? We talked about it in in the interview. Like, she's literally built for this because of the training at the table. Then she impersonates a teacher or goes and teaches kids, but learns how to direct kids, and that ultimately comes back to that booth moment where she could direct, you know, and and knock it out of the park. I mean, literally one thing leading to another to create the moment of genius. And let's not mistake anything. Shelly, in my mind, is a vocal creative genius because she could do things with her voice creativity, creatively, that I I can't do, that most mortal people can't do. So a high level of respect. She's very talented, very gifted, very determined, and nobody works harder.

Larry Samuels 47:14

Yeah, and you know, and for me, one of the things that that really stuck is the the eternal optimism that she has. You know, when you look back at her journey, you know, being a kid and hanging in there and moving from one school to the next, she found a way to figure it out. You know, she found a way to fit in, she found a sense of purpose, and she remained positive and optimistic throughout all of that. When you look at the Weber State experience that didn't pan out, she figured out a way to work with that and to keep going. She came to lock, she didn't have the cash. Like there were so many of these moments throughout this story where she could have said, All right, you know what? Enough. I'm gonna pivot this way, I'm gonna pivot that way, I'm gonna take an easier path. But not for one moment did she consider doing that. And even, you know, the the story about the union agent and losing work and everything else, she just kept picking herself up, she kept believing, she kept going, and look at where she is today. You know, it it everything came together and worked out.

Larry Shea 48:14

Yeah, and I would also say she's not kidding when she says, use my resources because they're all there for you to learn. We know people are listening to this podcast right now who want to be voiceover artists. Go to her website, nycvocoach.com, because all sorts of questions are answered there, all sorts of information is given there, and it's gold. So if you don't go get it, shame on you.

Larry Samuels 48:37

Exactly right. So so with that, Shelly, thank you so much for joining this episode of No Wrong Choices. We also thank you for joining us. Please be sure to give us a five-star rating and follow along on your podcasting platform if you like what you heard. We also encourage you to join the conversation by visiting our website at NoWrongChoices.com and by following us on social media by searching for no wrong choices. On behalf of Two Char Saxena and Larry Shea, I'm Larry Samuels. Thanks again for joining us. Never forget there are no wrong choices on the road to success. We learn from every experience.