Gambling Pays with Cousin Sal Iacono

Larry Samuels 0:02

Hello and welcome to No Wrong Choices. Along with Larry Shea and Two Shares Axena, I'm Larry Samuels. This is a podcast about the adventures of life. Or each episode features what we refer to as a dreamer, or somebody who had an idea, a vision, chased it, and got there, got pretty darn close. This episode features cousin Sal Ayakano, a very funny comedian, writer, podcaster, and entrepreneur who's also famous for being Jimmy Kimmel's cousin. He's also a very good friend of mine that I've known for a long, long time. So with that, let's let's set up the interview. Larry Shea, why don't you lead us in?

Larry Shea 0:41

Yeah, this is gonna be another one of these kids don't try this at home type of interviews.

Tushar Saxena 0:46

Don't ever try this at home.

Larry Shea 0:47

Um or try this at home because it just might work. Uh we we talked about that with Julie, you know, on one of our earlier podcasts. Um the entertainment industry does lend itself to some very strange paths, whether that be over rocky roads or through the middle of the ocean. Um, you know, Sal had a lot of fortunate things happen in his life where he knew some people and got some doors open for him, but that doesn't mean just because the door is cracked open that you're gonna knock it out of the park and you're gonna kick that door in and get the job done. And everything you see with cousin Sal just tells you that he's right where he belongs because he's hilarious. I why I watch all his bits, I can't wait to see them. Um he works with Jimmy Kimmel so well, and now he's off on his own adventures, and and he's a really cool guy with a great story, and it's it is inspiring and truly inspiring.

Tushar Saxena 1:36

It reminds me a lot of the show, the old HBO show Entourage. Uh, and it's real life entourage in this sense, where you know, you had you have the big star who brings all of his friends along for the ride, and they all blossom, and they all manage to blossom in the best possible way. And Sal is that guy that you know he really he really took the opportunity that was given to him and he turned it into something. He turned it not only into not only into his job, he turned it into his career. That career is really, really, really flourished. And let's be honest, you you're right, say uh you're right, Shay, when you say kids, do not try this at home. Because first and foremost, you need to have somebody famous in your life. And if you don't, trust me, this is not the li this is not the way it's gonna happen conventionally. Because conventional is out the door here. But it's uh but look, Sal is a great guy with a great story, and trust me, you're gonna love it.

Larry Shea 2:32

And I think this is a good episode uh to have the listeners really tune into preparedness, you know? Like he was prepared, like he didn't just get this this like I'm gonna give you a job at you know Uncle Vinny's car wash or something, and you can wash the cars. I mean, this is not an easy thing that he was able to accomplish in his life. Just because he was shown the stage didn't mean he belonged on it. But you you listen to cousin Sal and you talk to Cousin Sal, and that's exactly where he belongs for sure.

Larry Samuels 3:02

And you know, somebody, you know, as somebody who knows him as well as I do, he's a very smart guy, he's very creative, he's always been unbelievably quick. And you brought up something earlier about you know having a famous cousin, you know, Jimmy, um, who I know from a very far distance, but close enough to you know, I've seen a lot of this stuff come together, has taken care of those people who really matter to him, and he's helped bring those people along. And I now see Sal doing exactly the same thing for those people who he loves and who he cares about. So it's uh it's a really great thing to see. So, with that, here is cousin Sal Hayakano. Now joining No Wrong Choices is a very funny podcaster, TV personality, entrepreneur, and believe it or not, lawyer who successfully turned his lifelong passions of laughter and gambling into a career. He may also be the funniest alumni of Oswego State University. Please welcome cousin Sal Ayakano.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Wow. That is some uh some intro. Funnier than Al Roker? I got yeah, all right, all right, I'll take that.

Larry Samuels 4:12

I think so. Funnier than Linda Cohn, maybe. Funnier than Steve Levy, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

I do appreciate the oh, I'm sorry. No, the uh I always appreciate a uh a thorough intro like that because I'll go on uh a bunch of shows and I didn't expect this from you, Larry. I I've known you for many years, but I'll hear our next uh guest is an American comedian and attorney. I was like, oh, you son of a bitch. You're just reading from you're reading from Wikipedia. Stop with uh you're a fan of mine and stuff like that.

Larry Samuels 4:42

But anyway, uh well that's the advantage that I have on this podcast is that I could have written the Wikipedia, so my job is to not go too far and to not overstep.

SPEAKER_00 4:51

Thank you. Thank you. It's much appreciated.

Tushar Saxena 4:54

Wikipedia has become our best friend uh in many senses, to be honest with you, Sal. So, Sal, uh I guess the first question has to be is that between Bong Hits back at Sunni Oswego, did you see that this would be the end place for the two of you at this moment, interviewing each other on a podcast? Was this the end result?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Uh, you know, I could say no and try to be cute about it, but no, I knew. I kind of knew. I knew this would be it. I knew this would be the pinnacle for both of us interviewing each other on uh cleanfeed.net and uh it all coming together from there. Um, six Larry's and a two char. Why, by the way, TJ, why didn't you change your name to Larry? It's so confusing that everyone's name isn't Larry. I feel like everybody's. All right. Well, it's not too late. I mean, I guess it is for the purposes of this call because I'm not sure.

Tushar Saxena 5:48

For the sake of convenience, if you want to call me Larry, Google.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

I have no issue with that. All right. I think that's how we're gonna have to do it. No, I didn't know, I didn't know what I was gonna do. I didn't know. Larry, did you know after college what you were gonna? I remember you being very particular about you had an internship set up. I think it was an internship, maybe paid through NBC, and you had to, you had to mail out this package. And I was like, oh, I'll take that for you. And you're like, no, you were probably the smartest thing you ever did. You're like, no, I have to mail this list. Yes, because that would have probably ended up in Lake Ontario if I had my way with that package. But anyway.

Larry Samuels 6:26

I remember that last semester in college, I took like a one credit course that that was required to graduate. And I don't know if you remember this or not, and I skipped the entire class by accident. I thought it started March 23rd, it ended March 21st. So uh I had a problem. So I was one credit short of graduation, and your friend Scott Gagnon tried to make me feel better about it.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah, Scott is it's uh hard to explain, but he's about a 400-pound half-wit. Um, grew up, born and raised, born and lowered in Oswego, New York. Uh, we would call them townies. And Scott, yeah, he's like he was a part of the custodial staff somewhere. And he's like, Scott, Harry, he's like, Larry, you could work with me. And that was not comforting. Wasn't comforting at all. He offered you a job.

Larry Shea 7:20

Oh my God. Why why do I feel like this whole interview is gonna be me trying to put it back on the rails? You guys going off to your college. Take me, take me back to. I mean, you grew up in Brooklyn, though, right? Like when you were a kid, you didn't dream of being on TV and all that stuff. Like, I I you fell into it? You didn't dream of that stuff when you were younger?

SPEAKER_00 7:40

No, I didn't dream of anything. I dreamed of Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders and you know, uh uh, I don't know, Christy McNichol. I'm not, I didn't know, you know, I was I actually didn't grow up in Brooklyn. I was I lived there for the first few years of my life. If you checked Wikipedia, you would know. No. Uh I grew up in Long Island and um, yeah, I don't know. Like, yeah, what I was getting at is Larry was focused on what he wanted to do. And the rest of, I mean, I I had has anyone heard of public justice? That was my major in college. I don't even know what you'd do with that. It wasn't quite political science, but it was it wasn't uh broadcasting. So I was so sort of in the middle, and I had nothing to do and I had nowhere to go. And I think my cousin Jimmy, who's probably gonna come up a few times uh in this discussion, was gonna hire me as a phone screener out of uh college. He was working as a DJ in Tampa, and he had been fired like seven times in seven different cities in about in a course of nine years. And so uh he's in Tampa, and I was like, all right, have nothing else to do after college. And uh I was like, I'll I'll be a phone screener. And then he went in to ask his boss if he could, if he could set it up, and the boss is like, no, not unless you never want to have a raise, be given a raise again. And so he's like, Okay, uh, Sal, you're gonna go to law school for now. So that's what I was that was my backup plan, even though I had no no inkling of going to law. I hated law school all throughout. And uh, but that was it. Like, I don't know how many, how many 18-year-olds you think like have a plan um really nowadays or even 30 years ago?

Tushar Saxena 9:10

At what point? I mean, okay, so you go to law school, you know you don't want to be a lawyer. Now, at some point during the law school, during law school, you say to yourself, this is not for me. This is totally not for me.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, day one.

Tushar Saxena 9:22

Was there a plan even after that, or was it always, okay, at some point I'm gonna go back to the gym?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Well, so you know, you always want to, you know, you you you want your parents to be proud of you, right? And so, like my mother and father talked to me and they're like, Oh, just because you go to law school doesn't want doesn't mean you have to be a lawyer. I was like, okay, I'll buy that. I don't even know what that means. But and then I graduate and they're like, oh, my son, the lawyer. And I said, wait a minute, I thought we had a deal. Uh, I want to go off and gamble somewhere. I want to live in Las Vegas, but apparently that wasn't in the cart. So for like a year, I was a real estate attorney and I would do closings um in, you know, I'd have like three closings in a day, one in Long Island, one in the Bronx, and then I'd have to go over the Tappansee Bridge to suffer. And it was, it was terrible. I mean, I hated it. I was like, it wasn't, it didn't fit me at all.

Tushar Saxena 10:09

I was I was gonna say, don't don't mind me saying that sounds absolutely insufferable. Oh my God. I remember my brains out.

Larry Samuels 10:17

I was I was living in his basement at the time.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

I remember yeah, yeah. The only thing, I mean, if you think I had it bad, Larry was the guy living in my basement. And I was and I was not well off at all. So um, no, but uh yeah, so I was like, I gotta get out of here. I mean, I'm like representing like 30 banks. And then my cousin Jimmy at that point um was uh working on when Ben Stein's money he was hosting the show and he needed a writer, and he was doing these syndicated sports comedy bits that he was willing to uh turn over to me to write. And uh and it helped that I failed the bar twice, uh, my decision in uh moving out west. So that's that was the next step right there.

Larry Samuels 10:58

So you went out west, yeah, yeah, and and where did you live when he got out west?

SPEAKER_00 11:03

I lived in his basement. It's just an endless string. It's an endless string of people living in each other's basements. It hasn't ended, yeah.

Larry Samuels 11:16

You move out to LA, you're living in Jimmy's basement, and so the first the first big projects, um, I remember you were running a sports bit, you were writing for for Ben Stein. When did momentum really feel like it started to kick in?

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Well, it's uh I mean it really, I owe it all to him because Jimmy's career trajectory and mine um have exactly the same path if I were to draw it out, because he would hire me on every show we worked on. But the man show was was really it because then I was like paid as a writer in Hollywood, and even though it wasn't guild, uh it was still a substantial amount, and I had never written before, but the man show was just like a bunch of idiots um sitting in a room farting and throwing uh like apples at each other, and then once in a while we'd come up with an idea for a 30-minute show a week, but uh it was great, it was probably the most fun time of my life. Uh that I don't know how much you guys remember, but Larry, did you come out for uh any of the three Larry's? Did you come out for a taping?

Larry Samuels 12:15

I didn't know.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

I did not come out for a taping. Okay, Larry, Larry.

Larry Samuels 12:19

A few times, and you know, it was it was hysterical going into that writer's room with I mean, Jeff Ross was there, Tony was there. I mean, some people who became unbelievable, I mean Jeff Ross was already successful, but became really big. And from what I remember, one of your friends was working on a project, and and the header was Other Words for Penis. That was his project for that particular moment in time. So it was this chaos.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

That was mild, uh, comparatively. Yeah, we had the um the show announcer was this man named The Fox. Was he still there when you were there? He would drink beer as quickly as you could pour it out of a mug. He had a bar in Santa Monica in the 80s and 90s, and Jimmy fell in love with him as like a 16-year-old, snuck his way in and got drunk, and he would sing all these filthy songs. And yeah, it was a lot of that. It was like uh writing different words for penis and um and uh transcribing the words to the fox's filthy songs, and and uh nothing really substantive um got done there, but uh yeah, we lasted for you. I mean, really, they would we would like they would be tailgating in the parking lot before a show. There was no nothing like it for a TV for sure. So that was fun.

Larry Shea 13:33

So did did you so obviously the writing stuff it came naturally to you? Did you have to make an adjustment when you started hosting, doing bits, things of that nature? Was there a huge adjustment? Did you find yourself to be a natural at it, or did you have to like work at that part of it?

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah, no, I definitely had to work at it. I was uh little by little, as you we had to class things up, and you know, yeah, so then I went on to host Win Ben Stein's Money, and I could still be somewhat of an idiot on that show. But then um, when we went Jimmy Kim Alive on ABC, you know, the man show roots ran deep, but at some point the the executives were like, all right, we got to class it up a little bit. We have too many, um, too many co-eds vomiting in the front row, and this resembles the man show just a little bit much. So uh, so there you go. So that that I think was where we had a pivot and like get together and and try to write smarter comedy. Um, so it was a little more challenging. But um, yeah, and then that show's been on for almost 20 years in January, it'll be.

Larry Shea 14:30

So where did you go from there? So you're hosting. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

I don't even remember when we are. What uh what year is it? I have no idea.

Larry Shea 14:35

You were well, you moved into the hosting stuff, and so you know, you're you're moving on that into into that direction. What happened next? Do you do you remember the pace of things and the in the sequence of the thing? Right.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

So then I got married and Jimmy Kimball Live started in uh what 2003, January. I want to say, yeah, I guess of 20 years of January, 2003, and you know, he made me more of a part of the show and what in in terms of how we grew up, like pulling pranks on people. And so I ended up uh shooting hidden camera bits. I would do like two a week in the early days, uh, because they were just like just try whatever you can and see what works. And uh so I think I've logged about 200 hidden camera uh pranks on that show. Um, so I think that somebody looked it up the other day, and uh that's what it is. So yeah, I had more of a instead of being the stupid cousin who writes fart jokes on the man show, I had more of a uh purpose uh, you know, on on Jimmy Kim Alive. So that was funny.

Larry Samuels 15:32

What what are some of your favorite bits, some of the favorite pranks or whatever, whatever those are called? What are some of your favorites?

SPEAKER_00 15:37

Yeah, I mean, I like but it's a lot of them. I remember um well the one I I was threatened a couple times. Uh geez. Very soon. Well, you know, I mean, when you start talking about 200 pranks, and if there's seven or eight marks or ten marks for each one, then how are you dealing with 2,000 people? And then uh once in a while someone's gonna run after you with a butter knife at a buffet after you clean his plate uh prematurely. And so that was uh I was a bus boy at a buffet. Uh the I think it was the Rio buffet in Las Vegas, and uh this guy had just sat down, this big fat man, and he was about to eat, and I just took his plate and I dumped it into my bus bucket, and he came after me with a butter knife. Um, now the thing about buffets, I don't know if you guys know, once you pay, you can go up as much as many times as you want. So um whereas at first glance, it looks like I ruined his meal. He really could have gone up and replenished.

Larry Samuels 16:34

Everything would have been fine.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yeah, he didn't he didn't think it through. He chased me with a knife. I was faster than him and his 400, 400 pounds. That was that. Um, in terms of my favorite, you know, uh my cousin Jimmy and I like to prank my Aunt Chippy, and uh she had um we painted her house once. We had a crew paint her house orange, and they were painting the shrubbery and everything, and we had cameras all over the place, and that was great because she just goes crazy and uh loses her mind uh with those things. We had, oh, she her one salvation was um she was uh she had the ceramics class down the block. And on Monday she would go and she would make this terrible pottery, and she would think it was great. And so we infiltrated, we had an old man, Judo Jean Label, look him up. He's like the godfather of uh of MMA, but he also was a stunt man and an actor, and we had him come in and he screwed with her to no end, throwing sardines on her painted platters and everything, and she she lost her mind. So uh yeah, that's those those are the best ones, man Paul.

Larry Samuels 17:36

I I definitely saw that one. I'm flashing back too. I think that you had the NBA championship trophy fall apart on people a few times, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

That's a good one. Yeah, we did that this year, the Larry O'Brien trophy, and we have people sign a release uh saying, you know, well, there's not gonna be any problems. But if in fact the trophy breaks while it's in, you know, in your possession, uh you owe upwards of two million dollars. I'm like, but it never happened. So just sign here, and sure enough, we have it rigged, so as soon as they're as soon as they're posing with it, the thing destroys it gets destroyed. But then you'll have like people crying, and we have to cut those out because um uh people don't like to watch others cry, even if at the end of the day.

Larry Samuels 18:17

I do agree that that's not great television. That's not the television.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

That's the only point to watch. That's the only reason to watch. By the way, some of those earlier days we probably would have allowed it, but now um people are are much more sensitive to those who are sensitive.

Tushar Saxena 18:30

So um we can't that's the problem with modern society.

Larry Samuels 18:33

That's right. It's interesting that you say that because your career has taken a pretty interesting arc when you consider that you started with the man show and we've now gone through this age of massive transformation in terms of what could be shared. Like, has that impacted your style and how you do things at all?

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Listen, I'm not gonna lie when I say I I think about every you know edgy joke that I tell, you know. I I would love to be in a place where like uh with the Adam Corollas of the world who just don't give a crap and say what they want, um, uh, you know, no matter how crazy it is. Uh yeah, the man show was a different time. First of all, they were doing it tongue in cheek, Jimmy and Adam were at the time. And it wasn't like we hate women, you know, that that was understood, but they did say some asinine things that would be quotable and maybe cancelable in today's uh day and age. So yeah, of course. I mean, I mean, you guys think about it too, right? I mean, this uh just any comedy bit that would have would have had legs years ago. I mean, just look at sitcoms now. Forget about even all in the family, but you would you would just see there are even some Seinfeld episodes that you couldn't make it with.

Larry Samuels 19:43

Couldn't make it, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah, yeah, like the Native American uh right. There's just like some so many things that you couldn't get away with today, uh, for better or worse. You know, I mean, maybe we were stupid and we needed to grow up, but also maybe people need to relax too and um just recognize that uh a lot of this is all for fun.

Larry Samuels 20:03

Yeah, like it's interesting as we were going through preparing for you know, launching the podcast, we looked at like you guys prepared for this? Believe it or not.

Tushar Saxena 20:13

Not this particular. You cannot understand how much time it took preparing for this podcast. Okay, not this episode.

Larry Samuels 20:23

So we listened to you know some of the clips that we did way back when, and like there was one bit, and I I don't want to say who it was, but a radio legend that that we worked with a couple of times who we had on the show, who was so funny and so brilliant. And he was making fun of Touchar, ripping Touchar in a way that in today's day and age, there is no way we could put that on the radio. It's just yeah, it's sort of interesting what we thought was so brilliant then, we're so sensitive to now.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Yeah, no, yeah, there's no question about it. And I talk about this with uh Bill Simmons and my cousin Jimmy and Adam Carolla, and between the four of us, and and Jimmy especially because he was doing radio in the 90s, but there's you know, between Simmons and I did a podcast now for almost 15 years, and Corolla did Love Line, and Jimmy, like I said, there's 25,000 hours of them on there. And if anybody's really paying attention, um, there's some bad stuff out there. I probably shouldn't even mention that because now uh now I've issued a challenge for all the trolls to figure out the phone. Okay, good, good, good. Okay, so yeah, that's right.

Larry Shea 21:29

So so this this is now this career path has certainly given you access to be in places where you never would have been before with people that you couldn't imagine. Do you have that like pinch me moment? Like, Jesus, I can't believe I'm at this party or at this place with these people. Is there a moment like that you can't?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, there's so many, and I've uh you know, I wrote about it in my book. You gotta be careful about meeting your heroes, 'cause you know, uh almost definitely they're not going to be as excited to see you as you are them. And if they if they are, there's something wrong with it. But I Like I think shoot to the C C plus range. So like I met Rowdy Roddy Piper, you know, professional wrestler, Rowdy Roddy Piper, who was my favorite growing up, my absolute favorite. I would get in, I got all through my progress report all seven classes on cooperative behavior in class in uh as a junior in high school because I would talk like Rowdy Roddy Piper and berate the teachers. And that was even back then, you couldn't do that. So uh so I loved Rowdy Roddy Piper and I met him and he he was uh he was a great dude. He really was. And like I want to say, in a way, a father figure and you know, just the the sweetest heel you'll ever meet. Um but uh I got lucky because he's not, you know, and was if it was Paul McCartney, it might be a different story, right? So keep your uh expectations, you know, have your heroes be somewhere in the middle, and uh, and then you need a little luck, and then uh I think you'll be happy. But yeah, when I met him, Jimmy uh invited him to my 30th birthday party, and he showed up in the kilt and he said, uh, I've come here to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I'm all out of bubblegum. And it was like a it was like a clown showing up to a kid's party, and uh yeah, that was my pinch me moment, I would say. Uh I've had a bunch of them, but that was probably the first.

Tushar Saxena 23:19

I remember the great line that is.

Larry Samuels 23:21

I remember that video. You came home from LA and you had a video of that birthday party, and I'll never forget Piper walking around the corner. Where is my little boy Sal? Or whatever. It was so great.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

He put me in the sleep roll, then he was like gone in a town car in 20 minutes. It was it was surreal. But yeah, there's uh there's a bunch of moments like that for sure.

Tushar Saxena 23:44

All right, so Sal, I want to talk a little bit about like the I mean get back to like uh in some senses, like what we talk about the podcast, like you know, how do you get uh not not how do you get in life, but for others, like you know, how can they you know walk this career path a little bit like like you now? Obviously, you had a great deal of help from Jimmy. So for others who kind of want to crack into the business, like what are some good suggestions for them to to look at?

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah, I think that's really it. You have to have a famous cousin. And uh, and if you if you don't help, it certainly helps. Yes, just jump on 23andMe and just keep refreshing and refreshing and refreshing until it happens, and maybe a Bradley Cooper will show up or you know, or uh or uh uh Melissa McCarthy or something. But uh uh I well are you talking specifically podcasts?

Tushar Saxena 24:29

No, no, no. I would say like uh I mean for you, like where you started out uh you started basically started out as as a call screener to writer, so to speak, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:37

I I think it's this is not gonna be anything like uh you know life changing.

Tushar Saxena 24:41

But obviously your path your path is super unconventional.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Right, right, exactly. So yeah, be become a lawyer, fell the bar, go out uh no, no, I would say any kind of entertainment. That's right. A cousin with a basement is huge. Um I I would say just keep writing, you know. If you want to get in the entertainment field, keep re writing, keep creating, um, run it by people, run it by people who are gonna be honest with you, and uh just try to find your niche, right? Because as tough as it is to get started, like I would say in the podcast business, and I'm sure you guys are seeing, like it's tough to drive draw numbers, and there were, I don't know, there's something like four million podcasts, right? I don't know, you guys are gonna start crying when I tell tell you this, but I think Spotify said there's four million podcasts, and even like four years ago, there was like 220,000 or something. So sure, that's depressing, but there are also a ton of outlets where you could be recognized. Uh how many TikTok stars do we have to be introduced to every week to see that that's now a uh, you know, that's that's kind of something that needs to be taken seriously as much as you can, you know? Uh so I would take, you know, be creative. There's a thousand different ways to do it and hit as many as you can.

Tushar Saxena 25:56

Are you happy with the are you happy with the way the industry is now? Not at all. Are you happy with the way the industry is now in terms of seeing that there's more talent out there or just the way that even with mentioning TikTok, the the idea that, you know, if you can just do anything kind of stupid on TikTok, it somehow turns you into a star. Do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing?

SPEAKER_00 26:18

I think it's both. Obviously, it's good for the stars, right? Who aren't gonna get there um, you know, uh working at IBM or whatever otherwise. Uh, it's not good for me as a parent because I want my kids to go to school and try to do it the conventional way, even though that's so hypocritical when you look at my how I got to where I am. But um, so you know, I I do want to uh maybe it's maybe I'm conflicting uh advice here when I say go out there and and make your way creatively, no matter how you can, and then say, no, I hate all these TikTok stars. But yeah, it's a it's a little of both. I would still advise that you have a good base. I would still advise that you have a good education and everything else. Fall back on a business background for not because even if you become a TikTok star, that money could be gone if you don't know what you're doing with it. Um, yeah, and then but I do like just that there's more avenues. So just look at all the streaming platforms, right? So all the creativity that could be uh inspired by that. Uh on the other hand, I don't like every Monday someone coming in telling me that I have to watch three new shows. I can't do it. There's too much, there's too much TV, right? How much TV do you guys watch? Isn't this annoying? When you're far too much. Yeah. You can only watch like 150 hours a year, I figured. So uh so I don't know. So it's a it's definitely a little of both. I'm not gonna say uh TikTok is the way to go and you have to you have to abide by the new uh way of doing things, but um that you can't close it out altogether.

Larry Shea 27:47

So are you a big proponent then of formal training, acting training, maybe even doing stand-up things like that? Or do you do you do you do you think that's uh obviously still a viable avenue for people to get into entertainment? I mean, writing I think is the best. I think what you did is the best because when you understand comedy writing, you can perform it better. But are you a proponent of that formal training?

SPEAKER_00 28:12

I think uh a little, I'm not gonna say no, throw it out, because we've seen examples of uh the Kardashians having their own reality show with no formal training, right? Like that. So that's what some people will point to. But um, that's that's tough. That's tough to pull off. And everybody needs training. I don't know, uh, what whether it's sports or whether it's playing the piano or acting or anything. Yes, you want to be, you want to make it so that you can be molded into something that you're not, you know, because you're not there yet. So yeah, I wouldn't rule out formal training, but I would say maybe don't get bogged down on it. Maybe you don't have to spend seven years in an acme class uh because your friends are in there, right? So I don't know, so dive into TikTok, dive into Instagram and whatever else, and do just little shorts and and and if you have enough of a following on social media, you can get there faster than the conventional way, like we talked about.

Larry Samuels 29:04

So, Sal, I know that you know you've also recently jumped over, and by recently, you know, two, three years ago, jumped over to the the podcasting world. You talked about acting and getting reps and things of that nature. I know that you've done a lot of radio work over the years, but what was the inspiration to put yourself out there and launch your own thing, your own podcasting company?

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Well, I'll have to start with uh the the Bill Simmons uh part of it, where he was a writer on Jimmy Kim Alive the first year, and um we both had gambling problems. I mean, and we both love professional wrestling. What what what the gambling problems so win or lose if you lose, you lose 110. If you win, you win. Oh, it's a long expression.

Larry Samuels 29:47

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

So Simmons and I would talk about gambling and sports all day, and we would um especially on Mondays with you know, USA Today was a thing back then, and we would guess what the lines were for the next week, and we would keep track. And Simmons says, uh, this would be a good show. I said, it's what it's not even a thing. What do you mean a show? We're we're talking about it and then we're done. He's like, No, we're not. We we made it last for an hour. I was like, Yeah, well, that's our problems. We're idiots. But so he was uh, I don't want to say he invented podcasts, but he was in on the ground level early on and through ESPN and Grantland and then The Ringer. Um, we've done this for almost four 14 years. Well, we and I remember like the one of the first ones, it lasted about an hour. I was like, all right, you're gonna edit that down to what 11 minutes. He's like, No, it's a podcast, that's what it is. I was like, really? And it just to me, it didn't make any sense where all we're learning about is younger people and their attention spans getting smaller and smaller, right? And then here we are putting on something that I think could be condensed to 11 minutes, and he thinks it could live freeform for an hour. I'm like, all right, see what you could do with it. And um, yeah, it's gotten great numbers since. And then uh he went and sold his company full of podcasts for $240 million, and that's the moment I said I gotta do my whole thing. I'm sorry, how much like a good idea? I don't know. Do you think is that inspiring enough for you guys? That number of people.

Larry Samuels 31:16

For me, I I I'll let the other two guys speak for themselves. I think we'll keep going. So I have to ask you a question about the the Bill Simmons, you know, picking the lines thing. Was that in any way inspired by what you, Harry, and I used to do in the student union every Tuesday?

SPEAKER_00 31:34

I think so. Probably. Yeah. I I I I think I pushed it on you. So you you're saying I should be splitting the $250 million with you, Simmons, and Harry. Yeah.

Larry Samuels 31:44

I believe I at least deserve a sandwich or something.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

If you get a piece of the $250. Well, let's see. I listen, you should take them to court. What a what a uh what a lawsuit this would be. What a racket that would be. My God. No, listen, yeah, I've been betting lines, uh, but look, that's how you would do it, right? You would lose a game on Sunday night. You would lose, or God forbid, win, betting on Sunday, and then you'd lose it on the Sunday night game, and Monday would come. And and Larry, we you and I have stories involving third parties that we couldn't even repeat on this uh podcast. But um, but either way, I was always looking for the next fix, right? Which uh, like I said, USA Today had the next week's lines. Some of them had the N slash A because you didn't know if a quarterback was out. Nowadays they have a line on almost uh just about every game. Um, so yeah, uh, I guess the lines was uh a part of my routine for even before Simmons. Yeah.

unknown 32:42

All right.

Tushar Saxena 32:42

So you are you a better gambler or a better comedian?

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Whatever the second one was gonna be is the answer. Or a better line cook. Yes, uh spelunker, uh gambler, or yes, um, I guess comedian. I don't know. I just uh listen, I do opinion-based gambling, right? And uh there are ways to win, not not too many anymore. Um, you know, where you would you have 16 iPhones going at once and you're trying to buy a half a point here on Caesars and sell a half a point on DraftKings, and you know, at that point you're not even watching the games or considering who's taking snaps or anything, or you get into it like I do and have an opinion on something, and you see the Steelers get crushed one week, and you're like, oh, well, the Buccaneers aren't gonna lose to the Steelers, and then sure tell they do, and you're like, oh, that's why opinion gamblers lose all the time, and that's what 99.9% of those out there uh are are doing opinion gambling. But um I have tightened it a little bit. I have, you know, I'll I'll bet a little less week to week, I'll bet more on preseason um futures for the uh upcoming season. And uh this is well it's not fun, but I like to bet unders on on players, and whether it's hockey or or basketball or baseball or football, if I bet the under on total yards for a given running back for a year, uh, and I do this with 30 running backs, I'm gonna win. I I hate to get the secret out, Larry. And I don't even think we've discussed this, but if I had a hedge fund to if you would give me all your money, I would do it on under, I would call it funder, and I would bet unders on player props because the psychology is that everybody wants a bet over on everything, right? Everybody wants a bet over two and a half Patrick Mahomes touchdowns per game or 48 on the year, whatever it would be. Um, but it goes under because these numbers are based on these guys not missing any games, these guys not getting injured, or them just not having a good year. So, yeah, I'll give you a hint like 26 running backs, I bet under, nine of them through week six are done already. Either injured now for the year, or their numbers are never gonna catch up.

Larry Samuels 35:00

So including Jonathan Taylor.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Larry Samuels 35:03

Bastard.

SPEAKER_00 35:04

Yeah, you're keeper. You're keeper. But anyway, so I I don't I don't want to sound like a smart guy because I still lose money, but I do I do have a way of making it even. Uh the comedian thing's never gonna change. I'm only gonna be as funny as I was writing fart jokes uh 20 years ago.

Larry Shea 35:18

So I just love that you're rooting against success for other people.

SPEAKER_00 35:22

You know, I I do that a lot, and people get mad at me because there's a bet on the NCAA tournament. Will there be any buzzer beaters in the first two rounds? And I almost always bet none. I always bet no. And they're like, you're betting against fun. I was like, no, it's fun for me to see it bank off the backboard and hit the rim and come out at the last second. I'm just rooting for the other team. And same thing at the craps table. I'll bet no pass on craps, and everybody'll get mad at me, but that's kind of are you in it to make money or are you not? You know, like I've had wars with people at the craps table where they're actually throwing the dice at me in anger because I'm I'm rooting against them.

Larry Shea 36:00

So you're not there to make friends, baby. You're there to make money.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Exactly right.

Larry Shea 36:04

All right, so I I need to roll this back because you you had me at 240 million.

Tushar Saxena 36:09

Let's get back to the 240 million with you.

Larry Shea 36:12

Hold on. So I didn't I didn't know it was gonna turn into this, but seriously, like, you know, any advice for us doing a podcast like that. How do we get 240 million dollars?

SPEAKER_00 36:22

That's right. That's what I'm looking for right there. I don't know how it happened. By the way, I hope I'm not speaking out of school, but I think there's been articles written on this uh uh uh on this uh 240 number or somewhere in there. Um it's hard. I'm gonna tell you, it it really is hard, and you have to uh you have to break news one way or another, I think, to get to get out there. Because, like I said, there are so many if we are talking specifically podcasts, there are so many, and what you guys are doing is unique, but you have to, I don't know, you have to somehow make news like uh like the what's up guys. I don't know. They had just like a little thing, and you gotta get it and you gotta work that and find out what works for you, and somehow uh that the public takes a big bite out of. I know I'm talking in very general terms, but uh I do feel for the most part, a lot of these uh podcasts with the bigger numbers were grandfathered in a dozen or so years ago. Um, so anyway, think of something else.

Larry Samuels 37:22

So, Sal, why don't you just run through quickly some of the like I know the shows, I listen to the shows, but for our audience, can you run through some of the the bigger titles and the shows that are out there right now?

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Yeah, that we're on, uh, that I'm doing. I do uh the Extra Points podcast with uh Dave Damashek and uh Martin Weiss, and that's a broader view of sports. And then uh, you know, with our buddies, Larry, uh the parlay kid, Darren Siccoli, and Brian Sacoli, the two brothers, and our friend Harry, who we went to college with. We do against all odds, and that's uh more um uh more concentrated towards sports gambling and day of events and things like that. We have Megan Fun of Sports, Megan Gailey's a comedian, and Megan Connolly is a backstage um uh interviewer at uh uh sorry, Friday Night SmackDown, and they they give their take on sports. It's a fun look at it. We have Waiver Wired Podcast, which is uh a uh fantasy-based podcast. We have Lemon Pepper Parlay with uh Will Blackman, former uh NFL player, and I know I'm missing something. We have a soccer uh podcast covered in glory with uh Toby Murgler and Brett Cormeyka. So yeah, it's uh we're trying to uh try to do a little of everything in this field.

Larry Shea 38:32

Few things going on.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Yeah, why not?

Larry Shea 38:34

So if so I think it's safe to say if you weren't doing this, you would pretty much just be what, a degenerate gambler or something like that? Like, what would you be doing if you weren't in the entertainment?

SPEAKER_00 38:44

I think, yeah, it would be sad. I'd be like probably a title closer. I probably would have been disbarred. Um, and so I would have been I would have had it been like a title closer. I'd have one of those jobs where you eat lunch in your car and then lose and cry. Yes, and lose about 70% of your uh paycheck on gambling versus But I bet you'd be a great softball player.

Larry Samuels 39:07

He would have won many titles by now without any question at all.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

How crazy is that? I had a girlfriend of eight years, Larry, and you know where I met her in college, and uh the biggest thing moving to California was not how am I gonna let my girlfriend of eight years know it was how am I gonna quit these four softball leagues, which meant everything to me. I loved it. Lyra, you were part of it too, the Sunday softball, right? I sure was.

Larry Samuels 39:32

You can't make Grenito angry. How are you gonna have Grenado that you're leaving town?

SPEAKER_00 39:36

This is one bastard team that would beat us every every year in the finals. It was so uh so embarrassing. They were like 30 years older than us, too. Um, but yeah, it's uh it's weird. That was what that was what kept me from breaking away, at least for temporarily.

Larry Samuels 39:51

Well, I'm glad you uh finally came up with the courage to uh to move into Jimmy Kimmel's basement. That was you know a really big leap right there.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

I recommend it. It shouldn't stop at name. If you're looking at it, that's the career path for everyone.

Tushar Saxena 40:03

Yes, you're not a part of it. Essentially from essentially from living in uh from having like a Larry Samuels live in your basement to then jumping to Jimmy Kimmel's basement to start them.

SPEAKER_00 40:13

Maybe there's a cribs um version of this where we just check out people living in uh celebrity basements or something.

Tushar Saxena 40:20

I don't know. You're dropping diamonds at every moment, Sal. Dropping diamonds.

Larry Samuels 40:25

Basement living is definitely the way to go. Well, Sal, uh, you know, uh thank you so much for joining us today, and uh good luck with the podcast and everything else.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Of course. I hope I didn't bum anyone out. You guys are doing great and keep it up, and you know, maybe tweak a couple things, go with the three Larry's, because I don't think I've I don't think I've seen that before. But uh you're doing great and uh keep at it.

Larry Samuels 40:47

So that was my college friend, cousin Sal Ayakano, who is uh a great storyteller and quite the story himself to say the very least. Guys, uh what were your I know him so well, I know these stories inside and out, so I'm more curious to hear from you what were your takeaways from this conversation?

Tushar Saxena 41:07

All right, real simple. I'm going to reference back to what Shay said before this interview started. Kids, do not try this at home. Holy cow. Look, Sal is successful, he really has, but let's be honest, he did have help along the way. And it's good now because we can see that he's helping others, and that's really what it's all about, right? Is that the notion that each one each one teach one, each one help one as well. It's a good thing.

Larry Shea 41:34

We talk all the time on this show about how important relationships are. There's no more important relationship in his life than Garrett Kimmel. Um, but as I said in the beginning of this, you know, just because the door gets cracked open for you doesn't mean you're prepared to perform like he did. And I the guy makes me laugh every time I see one of his bits, every time I talk to him, he makes me laugh. He clearly has that entertainment comedic uh buzz about him that's special, that not everybody has, you know. So we talked a little about uh, you know, were you a natural at this or do you train for this? And I liked his answer. He's like all of the above, you know, you have to prepare yourself, even if you have a famous cousin who can get you on the stage, you know, or get you in the backdoor backstage pass and the whole stuff. Uh he's clearly a talented individual, and I think the writing helped him immensely get his find his comedic voice. And here it is, folks. You know, the door gets cracked open for you. Go and kick it in and go and knock it out of the park, because that's exactly what cousin Sal did.

Tushar Saxena 42:41

I think that's an important thing you just said there, Shay, is the whole idea of like uh where Sal, you said had a comedic voice and found it. That's that's true for everybody. Look, if you really want to be successful, have a voice, find it, and if you haven't found it, uh figure out a way to discover what that voice is and then hone it.

Larry Samuels 42:59

That's the biggest case. And I'll build on that with you know, as somebody who has known him since he was 18 years old, what you see to a great degree is what you get. He's worked really hard at being a broadcaster, a podcaster, a facilitator, and and he's certainly honed his craft and honed his skills along the way. But the person that you see on camera or you hear in your earphones is exactly who Sal has been the entire time that I have known him. This person has never changed. Which is really, really, really great. So it's it's fun for me. It's such a good to see how all of this has come together for Sal. So with that, thank you, Cousin Sal, for joining this episode of No Wrong Choices. Be sure to check out his podcasts, Against All Odds and Extra Points, as well as all the other great shows of Mush Media. We also thank you for joining this episode of No Wrong Choices. We post about once a week, so please follow us here, or check out our website at NoWrongChoices.com. You can also find us on social media. Our handles on Twitter and Instagram are thefellas NWC. And Facebook, you can find us at No Wrong Choices. On behalf of Larry Shea and Touchar Saxena, I am Larry Samuels, and we are the Fellas.