Embrace Adversity with WFAN Anchor Erica Herskowitz

Larry Samuels 0:02

Hello, and thank you for joining No Wrong Choices. Along with Larry J and two Sharp Sex and I'm Larry Styles. This is a podcast about the adventures of life, where each episode features what we refer to as a dreamer, put an idea or a vision, chased it, and got there, or got pretty darn close. If you enjoy these stories, please be sure to follow or like us on your podcasting platform of Choice or connect with us at NoWrongChoices.com. This episode features sports anchor Erika Herzkowicz at the legendary station WFAN in New York. It just so happens that our own Touchar Saxena also started his career there, so he is the perfect person to kick this one off. Tuchar, take it away.

Tushar Saxena 0:44

I've had the opportunity to know Erika Herzkowicz for about a quarter of a century, which obviously dates me and dates her, which is a bad thing. But uh, you know, I love her to death. Um I knew from way back when that she was gonna be a star, and she really is. She's a grinder, right? She, you know, we've we've had we've spoken to people on the show about you know who have been pioneers in certain industries and have been those who are wanting to make their careers, uh wanting to make their careers, those who have made their careers. But she's one of those folks who who've kind of stepped in the industry and, like a lot of us, have been a grinder. She's really been able to, you know, get a lot of gigs in the industry and keep consistently making money, can keep consistently making herself better with the craft, et cetera. I love Erica Hurzquitz. I have always told her she should be a much bigger star than she actually is, even though she's a huge star to me. So I am really looking forward to speaking to her now.

Larry Shea 1:39

Yeah, I watched um Mike Francesca with FAN, and she did you know updates pretty much daily. So she was on my television daily. Um she's amazing at what she does. I I'm always excited to hear about the WFAN world, right? It's such a mysterious world that's the greatest sports uh radio in the world, primarily. And Erica is a huge part of that story. Mainly, I'm looking for some dirt on Two Char, but besides I do hope that's I do there's a line out the door people would ask. No, but seriously. I know she um she understands that world, grew up in that world, and I'm fascinated to hear about it and what it's like growing up in the industry because she really got opportunities when she was super young, and it couldn't have been easy. So I'm excited to hear her story.

Larry Samuels 2:26

Yeah, you know, and uh, she's also had the opportunity to watch the industry change uh underneath her feet. Um and uh I think we all have to a certain degree, but but but not like the radio industry. So her stories are certainly incredible. So with that, here is Erika Herskowitz. Now joining No Wrong Choices is the veteran sports anchor, most often heard on WFAN Sports Radio in New York, Erica Herskowitz. Erica, thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 2:53

Hi, thanks for having me.

Tushar Saxena 2:55

All right, so uh guys, full uh uh full uh disclosure here. I've known Erika Herskowitz since she uh for at least a couple of years from back in the day when she was over at WFAN with with which with what I will call the best intern class WFAN ever had. That did not include me. That was Erica and a bunch of others. And the reason I say this is because she, along with many others, were hired by FAN. At least I think she had like seven or eight people in that class. At least, at least five of them were hired uh over at FAN, which is an unbelievable number. So I will get into the story about Erica Hersquitz a little bit. I mean, she was by far and away, she distinguished herself amongst her peers when she was there, uh, you know, at least two years ago, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Um so the uh the one thing it was a quarter of a century ago, at least.

Tushar Saxena 3:47

So legit. I am not going to be a good one. And Erica, it's true.

Larry Samuels 3:53

If if you came in while Touchar was there, were you in a position to be hazed by Touchar? Did that happen at all?

SPEAKER_00 4:00

It did. It happened. But I actually learned a lot from Touchar. He um he was a master at cutting tape and delegating, and so I did learn a ton from him. One of the best things I learned from him was if you don't order your own, if you're not on the food order, you don't have to go get it. So as an intern, if I didn't order dinner, I didn't have to make the long trek up to 36th Street to go get the food from the delivery person, even as an intern. So I always appreciated that about uh Tushar because he he did haze a little bit, but not, you know, not any way in in a demeaning way or a way that would make you feel inferior.

Tushar Saxena 4:33

So and I will say this the uh this notion of delegation was uh what I would tell every intern is that I am a naturally lazy person who wants to watch television from about seven till nine o'clock. Therefore, you must learn this craft quickly, or else I will get pissed off.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Um That's true. That's very true.

Tushar Saxena 4:51

Uh so you know, E, while I know some of the story, while I know some of your story, I don't know a lot of your story. So let's get into it a little bit. Um, I will we'll head back to your college days at Rutgers. Why did you want to get in? Why did what want what made you want to get into the business?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

Well, I think as a young child, I always loved radio. It was always something I enjoyed. Even, you know, coming home in middle school, I would sit, you know, in the dark uh and just listen to music or listen to the Rocky Allen Showgram on on WPLJ. Just like that aspect of talk radio that I loved. It was comforting to me. And so always in the back of my mind, it was something I enjoyed. And never in my wildest dreams did I think, oh, I'm gonna be in radio. Although my mom did find they had my parents just moved, they just um were cleaning up the house and they found this um cute little drawing that I made when I was in second grade. I guess it was for school. It said, When I wanna, when I grow up, I wanna be. And it said on the radio, which is really weird. Really weird because I mean, who knew when I was, you know, eight years old, seven years old that that would be something that was even in my mind. So fast forward, I got to Rutgers and we went to um uh an activities fair. Rutgers has an activities fair like all all colleges do, and I saw the Rutgers radio booth and went over, started chatting with some of the people there, and went to a meeting, and pretty much the rest is history. Now, I really didn't know that I wanted to get into sports. I was going to the meeting looking to maybe look into getting into news, but the line was very long for the news department. I mean, it was, it was very long, and there were all a lot of women there, and it just didn't seem like my vibe. But then you turn to the sports department, and there were like eight or nine guys just sitting around like doing nothing, basically shooting the breeze and and hanging out.

Tushar Saxena 6:41

Yeah, and so that's totally that's that's total college radio right there, boy.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Exactly. And that sort of seemed more my vibe, and the fact that there was no line to talk to the guys and and see if I could get involved, it's sort of how it actually happened.

Larry Shea 6:53

So was that an easy transition? Were you a sports fan? Because you know, radio is getting your ear, obviously, no pun intended there. But was it an easy transition to just make it sports radio?

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yes, because at the time I was a massive Knicks fan. I mean, I was like the sit on the couch in high school, and if there was a big game on, didn't go out, hung in the same exact seat in the wedge of the couch because it was like the good luck spot. You know, I was like one of those people. And so, you know, and I love it, it was the 90s, right? So it was the John Starks, Patrick Ewing, you know, Anthony Mason, Charles Howley, like the good years. And so I got to enjoy that.

Larry Shea 7:29

The OJ Chase year.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Right. So, so, you know, even my high school quote in my yearbook was a Pat Riley quote, which ultimately probably wasn't originated from Pat Riley, but who cares, right? So I wanted to have him sort of in there. And so I loved radio and I was a sports fan, and I thought, oh, how hard could this be? Right. So so I made the move over and um and ultimately ended up working for the sports department at Rutgers.

Larry Samuels 7:54

So you jumped in there, and you know, that type of a school, that type of an athletic program must have opened up all kinds of possibilities in terms of just cutting your teeth and getting experience. What types of things did you do while you were there?

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Well, if you remember in the late 90s, so Ruckers was still in the A10 when I got to the I got to the school. They were actually transitioning over to Big East. They had just built this big stadium. But the the sports department at WRSU, which is the station at Rutgers, is pretty established and very well run. And so what did I learn? I learned all the behind-the-scenes stuff, running a board, cutting tape, all the stuff that you would need ultimately if you wanted to be, you know, say an intern at WFAS. Right, as another major. Right, exactly. Probably why Touchar liked me because I came in with the skills to know how to do the stuff. So he didn't have to skills, exactly. Right. He didn't have to teach me how to use a razor blade and a and a, you know, cut, you know, splicing techniques to cut tape, which is what we actually had to do before there was anything digital. And so, you know, I was able to do it and I learned it all at the Ruckers radio station. And, you know, also in my time there, I started doing play-by-play for basketball because, like I said, I loved basketball and I got really into Ruckers basketball. I never did football. It was never my thing. But the the basketball was really something that I really enjoyed, you know, going to games, watching games, and and being part of all that. So I was able to travel with the teams, the men and the women, and and really um got some great experiences from from being there and doing that.

Tushar Saxena 9:27

Now, did you intern your entire uh your entire time at Rutgers or was it just like the last couple of years?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

So I interned at WFAN my second semester junior year. And then by the end of that internship, I got hired, you know, for like $9 an hour. Six, was it six dollars an hour, nine dollars an hour?

Tushar Saxena 9:46

No, it was nine dollars an hour. Nine dollars an hour, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

No, I know you know. So I got hired to, you know, obviously cut tape and um learned how to run the board at the fan. And so I was doing all the behind-the-scenes stuff there as an employee. So my entire senior year.

Larry Shea 10:01

So you you get in there and are you this is my dream job? Do you have reservations about it? What are you thinking as you now start to see the nuts and bolts of how this industry is gonna work? Did it just resonate with you completely?

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Honestly, I was really excited to be there. A lot of the guys that had been at WRSU at Ruckers had interned at the fan and had success and and enjoyed it. So I was just like, oh, well, this seems like a great path. This is what I want to do. But I went into it not knowing what to expect. And I had no idea that um all of this would have come from that. I never in my wildest dreams thought I was gonna actually be on the air. My aspiration was never to be on the air. I was told you're net I was told you're never gonna be on the air. You don't have a voice for radio.

Tushar Saxena 10:40

And so I think I might have told you you're not going to be on the air.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

You did. You did say that to me. You do that. Was one of um Tushar's speeches. You're not gonna be on the air, so you need to focus on Yeah, so just do your job. Do your job. Right. And what do you want from Michael Stelle? Right. So that was it. So that was the the deal. So I had no um idea that all of this would have happened from that internship.

Tushar Saxena 11:04

So all right, but the one thing I'll say about Erica, she was very driven. Uh, that was the one thing I really noticed when she was an intern over at W. She was extremely driven.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

I was. I was I was obviously focused, very focused. I was not there to get a boyfriend. I was not there to flirt with anybody, I was not there for attention. If you didn't look at me, I was happy. Like I just wanted to be there. I was doing my job. I wanted to learn as much as possible, and I was not there for any other reason. Sure enough, I ended up meeting my husband there, but that wasn't the objective. That's not why, right? That was not the objective.

Tushar Saxena 11:38

But that was yeah, but it wasn't year one. It wasn't year one for that, but no, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

And and I had a singular focus, which was what am I gonna do here and what am I gonna learn and and what's next? That's always what was always on my mind is what what is next.

Tushar Saxena 11:51

So So, but your big break obviously was at FAN and it was with uh it was with Mike and Chris, and you know, you were working that show and they took notice. I mean, they took real notice and you took advantage of that.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah, they took notice, but the the the parts that they took notice of are pretty it was pretty ironic, right? So they would they thought I was cute, right? Probably because I was this girl that, you know, at the time in the 90s, now you see cute girls all the time, right? So you see young women on TV doing all this sports. But at the time, that was, you know, I was actually there when um Andy Rooney came out with that little end of 60 minute piece about Jill Arrington and how he thought women on the sideline didn't, you know, women didn't belong on the sideline. I don't know if you remember that, but it was a pretty famous little, you know, he would do that thing at the end of 60 minutes, it was 60 seconds of he would talk about paper clips or he would talk about it because he was angry about something. Something, right? Those eyes, those, those eyebrows, right? So, but he he actually, while I was there as an intern, one time, you know, one of his pieces was about Jill Arrington and women don't belong on the sideline of a football game. And so it was a very different time. It was like, you know, there were women, right? So there was Susan Waldman, there was, you know, Ann Legory was doing a show, but very few. There was Leslie Bisser. And if you if you think about it, all of them sort of come from the same ilk, right? So they were a little older, they were not these like younger women at the time, right? So so when I came in, it was like a little bit of a novelty, right, that I was there. Too sure. I was I pretty much was the only woman there.

Tushar Saxena 13:22

Um Yes, that is very true.

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Right. There were some women that were producing, but but they were behind the scenes, correct. Right. But in my age bracket, right? So they took notice, they would make jokes about me dating Chris Carlin, right? So they would that was their shtick.

Tushar Saxena 13:35

I don't know if you remember, Touch, but that was like I I remember all of it, very evidently, huh?

SPEAKER_00 13:39

Right. So so that was the joke, and they would have me on and tell us the truth. Did you go on a date with Chris? You know, it was like they did things that sort of, you know, kibbitz, but never really took me seriously. And then I think Chris was on vacation and it was um in March. Obviously, it was the Big East tournament. Ruckers was playing at the garden, and they were simulcasting a lot of Mike was on by himself solo, and he was simulcasting college radio stations for play-by-play. If there was a game, he'd say, pull it up, pull up, right? So pull it up. So he pulled up the Ruckers feed, and I happened to be doing the game, and he knew me because I was intern slash turned board up slash team.

Tushar Saxena 14:19

You were doing that game?

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Yeah, I did the game. No, I didn't know that. Yeah, so I was doing a game during the Biggie's tournament, and he heard my play-by-play, and he aired it, simulcasted it on the fan. And then the next week I got a note in my mailbox from Mark Thernoff asking me for a demo tape. Wow. For updates. And so that's how it happened. I hadn't even gotten out of Rutgers yet. I it was March of my senior year, and then by June I was on the fan, which is really wild considering That's amazing. Considering I didn't have a voice for radio and I and you know I and I obviously said you're you're not gonna be on the air here at WFAN. So that absolutely actually hearing you say that now, it absolutely resonates that you did absolutely say that multiple times to me. And and I never was offended.

Tushar Saxena 15:03

And she still talks to you sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

He beat me down. He made me doubt myself. No, he, you know, but but the reality is that I never really thought that was even gonna be a thing. And I never even got to the point where I was like, oh, am I gonna go out of state to pursue this? Like it wasn't, I thought in my mind, I'm gonna be like a um a producer, you know. I'm gonna hopefully maybe one day be a PD or an assistant PD or in management. That was sort of where I thought that was going. So it's really pretty wild what's transpired.

Tushar Saxena 15:32

All right. So just for folks who don't know, when she says Mark Chernoff, Mark Chernoff at that time was the uh program director uh for WFAN. And obviously, you know, he was he was the guy who was making all the decisions for who is and who is not going to be on the air.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Right. And I think still it was a little bit of a novelty to have a woman doing updates or, you know.

Tushar Saxena 15:53

Yeah, at that point there was there were no women doing updates. It was like it was Bob Heusler and John Minko, all these famous voices who've been there forever.

SPEAKER_00 15:59

And fast forward 26 years, and there's still no women except me. So I mean it's very strange. It's really weird if you think about it.

Larry Samuels 16:05

But so you you they they hear you, you know, he hears you doing play by play on the air, et cetera, et cetera. When when did the momentum start? Where did you break through? Like, like how did it build from there?

SPEAKER_00 16:16

Well, I mean, I I if I think back to well, like if I think top five single most exciting moments of my life, it was that was definitely one of them. And I remember Mike sent me, um, sent Chris Carlin to the city because we were staying at the Marriott um to take me out to dinner and celebrate. It was like a big deal. And then that note from Mark, and then training, you know. Oh, actually, you know, I take it back. Sam Ryan was doing updates overnight. So I feel bad. I I I missed that one. She she too was sort of in that sort of you know, same bubble as I would be, I guess. And I'm sure she didn't like me at all because why would she be happy to train someone like me? Like super.

Tushar Saxena 16:52

I think you might have pre-dated Sam by like a couple of weeks or a month.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

No, I don't know. What do you mean?

Tushar Saxena 16:58

No, no, no. Because yeah, Sam was because Sam was doing uh was doing updates with with uh Joe Beningo on the overnight. Right. I think you just I think you might have pre-dated her just a just by just by like a month or so.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

I don't know. I mean, I don't know, you would know that better than me. I I just thought she had been there forever. I guess I I I wasn't really um super up on who was doing what there. And so, you know, because I was still in college, I was still, you know, doing that whole college life thing. And so yeah, but she trained me. And and I'll never forget that. I I we came back and think, wow, like what how you know, I'm gonna be the way that she treated me, which was with kindness and support, and not like the way people think women treat other women, which for the most part can be true. And so, yeah, she was great. So she was there doing updates, and so I guess they thought having another one of, you know, her type doing updates was a thing, you know, a thing to go with. So yeah.

Larry Shea 17:51

I I think it's interesting you're talking about the relationships of the people who were training you at this point, you know. Um I it's funny because I wanted to ask you about, you know, the big egos in these radio talk show hosts. I'm not gonna mention any names, but they might have been mentioned earlier. And the, you know, dealing with difficult people maybe in the radio industry. And, you know, I I guess there's relationships with other women there too, because maybe you're get trying to get the same job, you're trying to get the same opportunities. What about the relationships and how did you how did you handle all of that? What did what was your what was your way to go?

SPEAKER_00 18:23

Well, Touchar mate, it will definitely remember this. There were women there that were behind the scenes that absolutely did not like me for for, you know, to just did not like me.

Tushar Saxena 18:32

And and so it wasn't just it wasn't just women, I can attest to this. It wasn't just the women.

SPEAKER_00 18:36

I know, and it's not a person, I wasn't it wasn't a personal thing, it was a jealousy thing. I was never mean to anybody. And you know me, Touchar. Like I I pride myself on being kind and just being the person people can talk to and and be supportive of people. And so it was because I was young, I was getting a break that I definitely did not deserve. I mean, definitely hands down, did not deserve the opportunity I got. For whatever reason I got it, I got lucky. And so people just didn't, they some people were great and loved me and and and and I'm friends with them to this day. And then other people just couldn't stand me. And Tushar, do you remember we had terminals? We didn't have computers or PCs at the time. And if you wrote messages, there was like no real email either. You you would write them through the terminal. And if you wanted to see what other people were writing, you could just pop in and like see their and I would like intercept. Even Tushar was involved in some conversations that were not that savory about me. And so I saw that. Yeah, you were, you were, but I never held it again. I never I understood. I got it. I understood. And maybe that's one thing about me I can, you know, be proud of is that I just never let it bring me down. And I never changed the way that I dealt with people, even knowing that they were jealous of the opportunity that I was getting.

Larry Samuels 19:51

That was gonna be my question. Did you push harder? Did you overcompensate? Did you pivot like nothing?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

No, I don't feel like I did anything different. I feel like, you know, and too sure. I said this in the beginning, is I was focused. I had a singular purpose, which was to do something with my life. You know, my dad absolutely did not believe that this was ever gonna happen. You know, my mom wanted me to go to college to meet a husband. Like I'm not from, you know what I mean? It's it's not it's I had one focus, which was basically to prove that I'm wrong, but also to do well and do something and succeed in whatever I was gonna do. And so, no, I didn't change the way that I it didn't make it motivate me. Let's just say that. It didn't motivate me. I didn't need any of that to motivate me.

Larry Samuels 20:31

Who are some of those people that brought you along and were just great influences upon your career?

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Well, ironically, you know, Francesa always helped me out. Um, he was always kind, he was always there, but really Susan Waldman was somebody that I was in touch with in college that had um corresponded with me in the kindest way. She didn't have to give me the time of day. And I remember she was being interviewed, it came down that she had cancer. Um, and Bob Raisman in the Daily News wrote an article about her, and she mentioned me. Um, and I here I was this like 19-year-old kid at Rutgers, and so she was talking about how sh, you know, she's an influence, obviously, for people like me. And so she brought me up, and we had just met a couple times or one time, and and so she was always somebody that I looked up to and thought was so so generous with her time, giving me her phone number, being willing to talk to me, even you know, she's just a really great person. And so um, some people have issues with her. Um, she's a tough cookie, and and maybe that's what I liked about her.

Larry Shea 21:31

So that's that's interesting though. Um were you worried about, you know, we've all had an on-air experience where it ends up being a train wreck, right? Like if you take it out of it, right? Everything were you worried about, I mean, you're getting extra scrutiny, maybe. Like, I don't know. I I get nervous.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

No, no, I was terrible. Like, two char. And touchar, I would know.

Larry Shea 21:52

Erica, I watched you on my television. Stop that. I watched you, I watched Francesa's show when he was solo, and you did all those updates. You knew. knocked it out of the park. No, no.

SPEAKER_00 22:01

But when I first started oh, you know, doing, you know, filling in overnights on the weekends on a Saturday night with Tony Page, I mean, I could, I didn't even know how to breathe correctly. I was talking out of my nose. I mean, I was doing all the things that you you do when you're first starting and you're super nervous. And I was bad. I mean I remember getting off the air and and um Craig Shamidis who was a a producer at the time he was in the newsroom Touchar knows him and and and he and he just basically looked at me and he was like that was terrible.

Tushar Saxena 22:25

I'm like Yeah but you gotta hear that. Shemides was doing that in fun. Come on do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

No, I don't mean so Touch I think I was I mean and I remember that night I was on with Beningo after the biggest tournament and you were producing and and I got off the phone with you and and Beningo had interviewed me about the Rockers basketball team and and I was so jacked up I wasn't even in the right frame of mind to have a conversation about the team. And I don't even know if I was equipped even at the time right but I got off the phone and I was like had that had that go and Toucha's like oh it wasn't that good I remember what are these conversations told both of us exactly the same thing. You know that and I yeah I remember it and and it it was I mean like looking back it's hilarious.

Larry Shea 23:10

It's hilarious how right he was it was probably horrible and and you know so thank god I don't sound like that now but you know listen every day okay so let's but let's talk about it because everyone fails right first of all if you're gonna fail you might as well do it on overnight with Beningo right if in that on the overnight period at the overnight Tony Page or whatever that was that's okay. That's more like a weekend overnight would be the way it's the least amount of ears but are you doing chops? Are you practicing reps? Are you going over your work? Even you sound so driven I would think you would then take that to the practice setting like shooting layups right you had to get this down.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

I did but I think what really was most important at the time was just getting the writing down not feeling like I had to you know I was I was nervous I was worried about saying names incorrectly I was worried you know there were a lot of things I didn't know and so you know listen put it in context I was 20 years old I had just graduated college and I look at these kids now these college kids like their world is is where they are they're in these little bubbles and they and they live within the bubble. So all of this outside stuff things that I had never had to cover before outside of ruckers sports I I had to learn. And so I sort of observed a lot I made sure I kept my mouth shut I listened you know I made sure I was I was paying attention I mean nowadays you can look up anything on YouTube and get a pronunciation. But back then as a 20 year old female in a newsroom with all men that majority of them think I'm an idiot and I shouldn't be doing what I'm doing and they're jealous, like they're not gonna help you. So I'm not gonna say hey how do you say this name, right? It was like maybe a hockey name or or you know any any kind of you know if if if if the not I'm gonna say the World Cup, but like obviously if there was a tennis match going on or something and there was a name I couldn't pronounce I would like secretly have to go into a back studio and make a phone call to a friend because there was nobody there that I would actually open up to and admit that I didn't know how to do something. So yeah so you say practice reps but my main concern was just not sounding like an idiot with the material. I didn't care how I sounded you know if I sounded nasal or I couldn't breathe that stuff I thought oh that'll come when I calm down it was it was knowing stuff that was really weighing on me that made me very nervous. And that was the stuff I went to study.

Tushar Saxena 25:18

All right so all right Erica look if I was nasty to you in the back of the day I'm gonna let me just start by apologizing. Because honestly because I I will uh you know once again full disclosure what she's saying is not a hundred percent is not incorrect. I was actually called into a meeting with uh the program director and the sports director at the time uh over at FAN to discuss this rumor that had been going around about people who had who had uh who had who were jealous of Erica being on the air and right and and somehow I was I was quote unquote one of the ringleaders.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

I had no idea this is news to me.

Tushar Saxena 25:57

Yeah I was I was brought in and I was like well you know she's on the air and you you know if you want to be on the air you know and I looked at the two of them and I was like I have no clue as to what you're talking about. I I was like yes of course I want to be on the air at WFAN but how could I ever be jealous of her having an opportunity? That would be insane. Like she didn't she didn't do anything wrong to to to get an opportunity. She had someone gave her the opportunity and she ran with it and she's doing a hell of a job. I have no idea what this is all about. And I I I basically was like you guys are crazy whoever said this is out of their mind blah blah blah. But if if and you are saying I was if I was nasty with you and there was obviously that is the case I really apologize. I swear to God I apologize.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

You weren't to my face at all and like I said and I don't even know that the individual behind your back that's a bad joke. Yeah I don't yeah I don't know you know listen I obviously never held it against you because I were so friends. So I and obviously like I said it didn't bother me in that way it was it was more the women that I was disappointed with because I felt like you know what what is this?

Tushar Saxena 26:57

Like shouldn't we all be like kumbaya which is so naive right 20 years old like who you know I mean part of that you know part of that and part of that was the the atmosphere in the in the WFAN bullpen back in the day it was it was kind of toxic I'll admit it was very it was kind of toxic. There was a lot of knives out for everybody. All right there was a lot of knives out for everybody. So yes I I understand I understand that thinking all right so my next question is going to be you have kind of established yourself now as one of the voices on WFAN uh you have gotten the reps in right you've you've made it you've made the effort etc what did you see yourself where did you see yourself moving now in terms of the career obviously you're doing you're doing well at FAN um had you what what were your aspirations now moving forward?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

So I don't know. I mean that's a really good question. I think things all changed for me when I had kids so when I was younger I was doing updates and my singular goal at that point once I mastered doing you know getting some shifts on doing the updates was maybe getting a play by play job right so I started doing games for Manhattan College on broadcast.com. I mean you have to remember the technology is so different than what what exists today um and I was doing Manhattan College games I had started uh working and you know just trying to you know get in anywhere doing play by play and it never really took off. I did have opportunities to do college soccer for CS TV which is now CBS sports television I did a full season and that was when my son was I would say six months old and I was traveling five days a week and home too and I did that for a full season and I thought this is not for me. So I think the shift for me from being super career minded to all right well this isn't gonna work out this is not what I want right now my priorities really changed and so I gave up the dream of doing play by play because I knew I was not going to be somebody who could travel and and put the hours in that I needed to put in to make that work. So that ended I did leave the fan for a little while I went to ESPN radio and helped them launch that in 2001 in New York City and um I was there for a year and two months it was horrendous I left I came back to the fan there's a lesson in not burning bridges right so um yeah I knew I hated hated being there and I had called again Mark Chernoff I said I want to quit it was a Friday he said let me know when you quit I called him you know that night and I was on the air with Mike and Chris the following Tuesday back at the fan. So yeah so so um and then since then I've been you know I I've been on I anchored on MBA TV I've worked for Major League Baseball I've done a lot of little things but never anything full time I think my whole life has been freelance. I think that that's sort of like bouncing around not having roots and not planting roots. I guess the fan would be the only roots that I've really planted. And while I've been there I've been able to do a bunch of other stuff. I cover you know right now I'm covering the World Cup for Westwood one. I do the Olympics I've been doing the Olympics for Westwood one since 2008. Um I started doing some money news on Bloomberg for fun and you know obviously to make money because that's what it's all about right at this point. But as far as the future holds I have no idea I don't know. I mean I'm at a point now where I've done almost everything in radio that I can do without you know leaving New York City. So yeah I don't know who knows.

Tushar Saxena 30:21

So do you feel do you have any regrets in terms of like I guess maybe regret regret's the wrong word to use but do you feel that uh having to raise the family and being a working mom in the business because I, you know, we've had we've had other we've had other women uh on the podcast with us but they've never been they've never been they've never had the family to go along with the career. You obviously have the family to go along with the career. Do you feel like there had there had to have been a major give and take being a working mom in the industry?

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Yeah I you definitely cannot have it all like I don't know who who says that they can have it all it doesn't exist. You you are constantly juggling balls in the air when my kids were little it was like finding babysitters and feeling guilty missing things. And so it's a very very difficult balance but once you make one thing a priority that's you know that's it. For me, my kids are my priority. I would give all of this up if it meant they needed me and I couldn't do it. You know I so and I wouldn't look back. So regrets no regrets. I always wanted to be a mom like I don't know when I grow up I want to be on the radio I always wanted to be a mom too. And so thank God I was able to make that happen because I do see a lot of women um a lot of my peers that you know never got married or got married but never had kids and their work is their life. And so I feel so lucky that I was able to make the choice that I made for myself. I mean obviously it's a personal choice and um I feel lucky that I have a very sportive husband who's always like go do it you know don't worry about it. We'll figure it out you know that's his his thing we'll figure it out um and my kids they think it's funny they don't care that I'm on the radio they have no they they want to know if I know anybody yeah they they don't listen to the radio they love sports they listen to podcasts I don't know any of the people they listen to and they could care less what I do so it's kind of funny.

Larry Shea 32:10

But I do I do want to um I do want to go back to you know you really you've painted a picture for me that I didn't know about you which is great because it it spurns a conversation about you know how difficult it was for you to get started even though you got this tremendous break, right? You were able to through perseverance dedication knock that wall down once it was you know cracked open for you so to speak. How do you think the landscape has changed for women trying to get into in into this industry today? Has it become easier? Has it become more difficult? Um there are certain challenges now that they certainly didn't face back then. How is the landscape now? I know you do some teaching so you know I know you're in contact with the younger generation. What what do you think about the landscape today?

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Well I think there's so many more opportunities there were not many opportunities for someone like a 20 year old female college student coming out of you know a a metro area area college like looking to get started right there were there were maybe a couple places you could go you could go to MSG at the time or you could go to sports channel I think that was a thing or you could go to the fan right but now there's so much more that these kids can do and the doors are wide open for them. As a female I think the women have more opportunities now but I don't know I mean it's I think it might be unfair for me to say because I'm not in their shoes and I don't know the other pressures that they face and the other things they have to deal with in the world. So you know I don't know my my perception from where I stand is there's if I were coming out of school right now and I knew what now what I knew then I would be going nuts. Like I would be able to to break down doors and and be places anywhere, do anything. But I I I have no idea. Yeah I don't know if it's fair for me to say but I I definitely think it it's there's more opportunities, I will say that.

Larry Samuels 34:00

So knowing that you're teaching, you know what are you telling your students when it comes to finding a way to stand out or differentiate themselves.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Well I do focus primarily on writing because that's a big thing for them but you'd be surprised a lot of them it's a it's a broadcasting class but most of them have no interest in going into broadcasting. They um they don't know what they want to do to be honest. There are some kids that want to be sportscasters um and they they have opportunities to intern at you know Sirius XM or on podcasts or um things like that that were did not exist obviously when I was in college. But um I just listen, I think my main thing that helped me was that I knew how to speak to people. I think I knew how to do and I don't want to say manage people because that sounds devious and underhanded but but I knew how to be mature, be a person, have conversations, not be shy, be bold and things like that that I think kids today if they just applied themselves in that way and and and knew how to kind of work the system so to speak and work people a little bit I think um that's how you get places I know that sounds pretty pretty crummy.

Tushar Saxena 35:14

Are you kind of disappointed to see that with the with the students you teach now is that they're not as driven as you were they don't seem to have they don't or maybe they obviously they're kids but you know they're not as focused in terms of what am I going to do for a career?

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah I I don't know if it's just happenstance that that's the case with the group that I'm with right now. A lot of them do have a lot of like great focus and they do want to be sportscasters some want to be writers some want to just follow you know certain sports like there's a kid in my class that just loves ultimate fighting so he makes that his focus. And so there are kids that that are into that. But to be honest they don't listen to the radio they don't watch television so they don't live in the same world we live in right we watch TV we listen to radio it's like our lives but they don't they don't exist in that world so I don't know what they they want to do. They don't really convey that to me um clearly but you know they're sort of still figuring it out and I don't know that that's any different than how it was you know 25 30 years ago.

Tushar Saxena 36:17

So so if that's the case so I mean obviously you know well 25 30 years ago you only really had TV and radio to deal with but you know as you mentioned now the kids you're dealing with they're not really listening to the radio they're barely watching they're probably barely watching TV so as a professor now over at Rutgers how do you how do you navigate that landscape now looking at new media and incorporating that into your teaching it's hard for me you know I have to I have to be up on you know podcasting and I have to know what's going on as far as all the social media sites that they're into which I mean they call me a boomer I mean I am such a boomer because I will say things you're you're I will I your your email your email absolutely makes you a techno boomer that important I am but I like it I think it's funny like I don't care that I'm a little behind on all that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

I think it's probably a little behind probably I know I know you can say it I have an AOL address without any numbers in it. You have an AOL address lady an AOL address without numbers in the name that's even worse 19 1997 get out of here I like that sound that it still makes you know the uh dial up internet Erica's very loyal she's been with the fan for 25 years she's been with AOL for 45 years.

Larry Samuels 37:30

She's a very loyal person.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Yes yes I am very loyal so I you know I don't even know what I was saying but I yeah I think uh I think they teach me as much as I teach them. I think that's the best way to say it.

Larry Shea 37:41

Okay so speak to these young people because I know there's young people out there listening that want to get into this career and you've you've you've been through that jungle.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Rank these for me education experience relationships and dumb luck I would say relationships dumb luck experience education Wow education last how about that how about if you want to do what we're doing I think it's last I I know I know that's terrible and listen I have a kid in college no I don't think it's terrible I have a no it's great it's insightful it's insightful it really is I have a kid in college and I always say to him listen it's it's all about relationships forget about your grade forget about any of that it's it's none of it matters it's it's all about who you know and how you how you manage people. That's it.

Larry Samuels 38:27

Yep you know and it's interesting hearing you you talk about that because I'm currently teaching a college class also and uh it's it's sort of interesting being you know I I'm in my early 50s so being the old guy in the room trying to relate to all the 21 year olds and and I'm doing okay but there's so many platforms I've never heard of et cetera et cetera it's it's an incredible experience for for me. So Eric I guess the the one last question I have for you um you know you've talked about you're not sure what's next you're you're sort of content but if there was one thing you could do going forward that's sort of a a dream job or a dream thing you haven't had a chance to take a swing at, what would that be?

SPEAKER_00 39:09

Oh my goodness. I I don't know I'd have to really really think about that.

Larry Samuels 39:14

You mean in sports casting in sports casting or maybe above and detail maybe it's becoming the dean of uh the communications department at rockers like is there is there something in front of you that you'd love to to to try to wrap your arms around at some point it's definitely not that I think I I I've always felt like what I do doesn't matter and that like I'm giving scores to you know a certain demographic.

SPEAKER_00 39:39

Like it just feels kind of unfulfilling in that way. So I guess I would have to say finding something that I feel like I do I could do that would make the world better. I know that sounds really weird but I just never felt super super fulfilled with the jobs that I'm doing. I mean I look at you know nurses and doctors and firefighters and people who volunteer and I guess going forward that would be something I would aspire to do. But I've done every I've I've done sideline, I've anchored, I've done play by play, I've done you know, so TV, radio you name it, I've had a chance to do it. So there's really nothing in the business that I have missed out on giving a go. I just feel like maybe outside of it doing something that makes you know my community or you know the world I know that sounds hokey a better place.

Larry Samuels 40:28

I totally get it. I think we all get to that point in our careers. Yeah other than giving scores to gamblers to gamblers all day you don't like that anymore?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Well that sounds like a a very uh ambitious and uh and and good uh pursuit uh to keep in mind Tushar I before we break is there anything any last thing you would like to say to Eric apologies I think we've had a therapy session here like there's a lot to come out I think I painted Tushar in the in the wrong light he was the least of the offenders because even if he wasn't even if behind my back I don't think he was super thrilled or you know had his own goals and dreams which I totally understand there there were people that were overtly um out to out to bring me down nasty yes and he was and he was not one of them and if he was believe me I'm a grudge holder like I would not be doing this podcast this would be uh yeah this would be yeah this would not have happened you would spill the beast exactly right exactly so I just look I will say this before before we let you go one of my favorite memories with Erica was which was which was the Olympics we worked together.

Tushar Saxena 41:34

Was it Pyonchang? Probably yeah oh I think it was Pyongyang yeah it was it was one of the winter it was one of the winter games right yes for sure. Right so uh we were both working at Westwood 1 for one of the winter games in this in South Korea. This was at the time actually when you know there were all sorts of rumors that the North is going to invade the South there's gonna be a nuclear war and blah blah blah the world is going to end right after like at some point during the Olympic Games. Anyway so but I hadn't seen Erica at that point in at least 10 years. I hadn't seen her in at least 10 years we hadn't spoken in at least 10 years. And uh and you were actually a very intimidating person to all the other not to me I don't I don't care I've I've known you for a long time but to all the other producers in that room you were a very intimidating force. And when I saw you for that first time it was obviously like seeing an old friend it was obviously seeing an old friend again after all these years. You know we're getting you know I'm like oh my God Erica great to see you blah blah blah we give it we g we give each other a hug and like all that stuffiness seemed to kind of leave the room and all the other young kid producers who were like oh my gosh you know Erica Hertz was like yeah of course I've known her for a hundred years leave me alone. So but so it was just a very it was a really nice moment and it's one of those things that I always kind of I've always kind of taken to heart because you know I have I've known Erica for a long time. I consider her a uh you know a good friend. I'm always so happy when I'm able to kind of work with her and speak with her and just kind of catch up with her from time to time like even here, you know, just catching up with her and knowing a little bit more about her life and what's going on with her. These are just these are just special moments to me because like you know obviously you know we all have we all have good people that we come up through the industry with Erica's one of the best.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Oh my gosh that is the funniest thing that people would be intimidated by me. That is hilarious. Thank you. You are an intimidating person I'm so silly I'm just it's ridiculous. But thank you for telling me that that's a really sweet story. The focus comes across as very I don't know I'm not that I'm not that focused anymore.

Larry Samuels 43:36

I mean I was it's the kids it's the kids that's what's going on my takeaways are going to be that she seems very nice she seems very personable. I don't feel intimidated at all and I'm very glad that we've had this opportunity to to talk to Erica today.

SPEAKER_00 43:51

So Erica thank you thank you thank you so much for joining us thank you so much this was really a lot of fun I appreciate it thank you And I'll go get a Gmail account now.

Tushar Saxena 44:03

Oh my God. Would you do this? Join the rest of us here. Look, I uh get at least get a Yahoo account for God's sakes. What's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_00 44:10

I think I have one. I just forgot the password. What do I get to do?

Larry Samuels 44:14

Oh my god. Are there better conversations than the ones that make Tushar incredibly uncomfortable? I I I come off like a jerk. Oh my God. Man, I was a jerk when I was younger. I don't think so. It didn't seem if you were, she did not know that, which is very good news. I'll tell you what, if I was her, I'd hold a grudge. Well, you know, beyond that, uh what an interesting person in terms of balanced perspective, courage, putting yourself out there, dealing with, you know, different challenges along the way. What a an interesting, interesting person.

Tushar Saxena 44:50

Uh the one thing I'll take away from that interview is, you know, she's like us, she's a veteran of the industry, and she's now seen how the industry has progressed. And I was very impressed by the fact that, you know, she is a working mom and how she has been able to balance that family and career aspect and where she was okay with saying, okay, you know what, the career has to come second to my life and my family. That is very true what she said. That you know what, there have been a lot of people in this industry who have said the career will always come first. It can only come first, and have done that to the detriment of saying they're gonna have long-term relationships, they're gonna have kids. Uh what she did, what she did there is make a real choice. And, you know, I I enjoyed hearing that story a great deal. I mean, that's the I say it all the time. It takes courage to do that. It takes a courage to make a decision like that.

Larry Shea 45:42

There's so much to take out of that interview, right? I mean, toxic environments, how to handle them, um, getting opportunities when you're younger and jealousy of of people around you. I mean, there's so much to unpack here. It's amazing. How about education being like the least important in terms of career development? I mean, I think there's so much to take out of this interview. Um, it it's it's difficult to unpack it all. But yeah, when you're 19, 20, 21 years old, um, in her, in maybe that, in this case, a WFAN toxic environment, I couldn't imagine the hoops that she had to jump through to climb the ladder of success, right? Just because she was given the opportunity at the beginning doesn't mean that she was going to succeed because there were a lot of people and a lot of energy around her that was really against her. So I think it's an it's an impressive career path. And I agree with you, T. I really admire trying to raise a family and have a career at the same time. I think there's so much to be said for that. And a woman in this industry who just wouldn't give up, just was so determined that it was gonna happen. You were either with her or she was gonna go through too because the determination was just really impressive to char.

Larry Samuels 46:56

I I guess I'll I'll I'll uh pivot to a question, you know, being there and and sort of seeing things play themselves out. Did she have protectors, so to speak, that that you saw?

Tushar Saxena 47:07

Yeah. Uh, you know, when when you have the biggest show on the air and they're the ones who are spotting for you, you know, she had protection, right? So she had people who believed in her. But, you know, I uh once again, it's not like she wasn't talented. No, she had the ability to do it. And as she said before, you know, once they put her on the overnight, you know, the over, you know, going on Mike and Chris is one thing because then it's you know, it's kind of a as even she said, it's kind of a goof, and they just kind of wanted to be like, oh, you know, check this out. We got a pretty girl on the show and she can she can do updates. But no, no, no. At some point, when you get the call from the program director and he says, Okay, you know what, we're gonna give you a shift and see what you can do. Uh, and then he puts you on the overnight. Well, then you know what? There's no, there's no uh there's no net. Now you're working on your own. And she proved herself. She did prove herself, and she worked with the right people there. You know, so uh Sam Ryan, who was there for a while, she did a great job herself. And you know, there were many others who helped her along the way as well. Many of the other update anchors, hey, you know, try this, do this. You know, I I thought I tried to help, I tried to help out as much as I could as well. I mean, my God, I got once I think about this interview, I I keep coming off like a jerk every time about this interview. My God. Um, but but yeah, but no, I mean, there were there were definitely there was definitely a support system in there for her when uh from from many of us. There was a support uh system in there for many of us when we could see, you know, she was not just an act, she could do the job because she had the chops to do it.

Larry Shea 48:35

And you even said knives out, right? Like that was the environment for everything. So she better have protection, right? Because, you know, we've all been in these work environments before, right? Where it's toxic and you just, you know, sink or swim. Everyone wants the gig, everyone wants the job, and everyone would do anything to crawl over all each other and get that gig, you know. So I think it is important to when you find yourself in these situations, to really have that self-reflection, that confidence to know who you are, what you're doing, why you're there. And, you know, maybe it's worth it, maybe it's not. I mean, you can leave a toxic environment too, but she really climbed that mountain, and and I'm proud of her because it it sounds like even though she got the break, it wasn't necessarily in her favor, maybe, you know, partially, but knives out, man, and that it's a tough field. Radio is that kind of field.

Larry Samuels 49:25

And to to keep things in perspective, as Touchar talked about before, meaning she met her husband there, she started a family, she prioritized things in the way that that felt right to her. And she, you know, had the perseverance and strength and confidence to see that through to bring her to where she is today. And you can hear the smile on her face, and and she got through it, and and it seems like she's in a really good place. Um, and only a special person can pull that off.

Tushar Saxena 49:52

I'm super proud of her. I love Erika Herskowitz. I can't say that enough. And I hope she listens to this podcast. I'm sorry. I'm sorry about the past.

Larry Shea 50:02

I love Erika Herskwicz. We never we never know how we come across in a professional world, though, right? Sometimes the toughest people, the people who are trying to toughen you up, are considered the jerks. T, I know when we started in radio together because I didn't do radio prior to knowing you. You corrected me. You put me in my place, you told me when I was good and when I was bad, and I always appreciated that feedback. But I think when you're 19 years old and a pretty woman, it's different, maybe, because there's a lot riding against you and a lot of jealousy and a lot of knives out.

Tushar Saxena 50:33

So T, it can be a tough field, man. The one thing that we should all take into consideration is that, you know, she was 19 at the time, and I wasn't much older, right? I hadn't, I I'd only been out of school a couple of years. So we're all kind of relatively close in age. So yeah, that jealousy factor comes into play a great deal. Um, so and while you say, Yeah, I was a jerk to you when you know, harder on you when I came over to school. You're still a jerk to me. I can't say I've obviously mellowed as I've gotten older because when I was over at FAN and and I kind of want to, you know, maybe touch on the notion of knives out. Look, when you're at the number one station in America for sports, because that's what it was back in the 90s, right? Even even to today, it was the number one place in America to work. If you want to talk about sports, everybody there has an ego. Every and I mean, I mean, not just the on-air people, like down to the tape cutters, like myself and the producers. Everybody has an ego, everybody has a personality. So when they see opportunities happening around them that they're not getting, oh yeah. They're about they're about trying to hamstring people and cut throats. I mean, that's the type of place it was for a long time. And I, you know what? For better or worse, it kind of honed me into the type of broadcaster I am today. I am, you know, I consider myself a sharp person, and I and I kind of want to take a lot of that experience I took there, you know, obviously take the bad parts away and use that experience that I earned that I learned there from because you know, it's bad for me to say that at the same time and saying, you know, I didn't learn anything while I was there. I learned a ton there. That was like graduate school for me. Um, and I loved my time at FAN. You know, I've I've said it before, I loved my time at FAN. But at the same token, I could see I see the environment for what it was, and it was not for everybody because of the atmosphere at times that it fostered.

Larry Samuels 52:30

Well, it's it's clear that that you made it through in flying colors, and it's also clear that Erica survived and flourished while going through the two char sex scene of.

Tushar Saxena 52:41

I love Erica Herskowitz.

Larry Samuels 52:44

Well, after that conversation, I'm a big fan too, but it might be a little early in our relationship for me to start throwing the L word around. But uh nonetheless, we want to thank Erika Herskowitz and all of you for joining this episode of No Wrong Choices. We post about once a week, so please follow us here, or check out our website at NoWrongchoices.com. You can also find us on social media. Our handles on Twitter and Instagram are thefellas NWC. At Facebook, you can find us at No Wrong Choices. On behalf of Larry Shea and Touchar Saxena, I am Larry Samuels, and we are the Fellas.