March 25, 2026

Mark Rampolla: Building, Selling, and Rethinking Success with ZICO Coconut Water (Part 2)

Mark Rampolla: Building, Selling, and Rethinking Success with ZICO Coconut Water (Part 2)

How does a simple idea become a successful company—and what happens after you “win”? In Part 2 of our conversation with Mark Rampolla, the founder of ZICO Coconut Water, we explore the full entrepreneurial journey—from launching a startup to scaling it, selling it to Coca-Cola, and ultimately rethinking what success really means. Mark shares how he moved from a corporate role at International Paper to taking the leap into entrepreneurship, building ZICO from the ground up—starting with early ...

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How does a simple idea become a successful company—and what happens after you “win”?

In Part 2 of our conversation with Mark Rampolla, the founder of ZICO Coconut Water, we explore the full entrepreneurial journey—from launching a startup to scaling it, selling it to Coca-Cola, and ultimately rethinking what success really means.

Mark shares how he moved from a corporate role at International Paper to taking the leap into entrepreneurship, building ZICO from the ground up—starting with early product testing, selling out of a van, and finding traction in unexpected places like yoga studios in New York.

But the story doesn’t stop with the company’s growth.

In this episode, Mark discusses:

  •  How he identified coconut water as a market opportunity and positioned it as a next-generation sports drink 
  •  The early struggles of launching ZICO—including moments when the business nearly collapsed 
  •  How focus and momentum in a single market helped the brand break through 
  •  The process of selling the company to Coca-Cola 
  •  Why achieving financial success didn’t immediately lead to the sense of freedom he expected 

Along the way, Mark shares the deeper lessons that shaped his book, An Entrepreneur’s Guide to Freedom—including the realization that the traditional formula of “build, scale, and sell” doesn’t guarantee fulfillment.

This episode is both a founder story and a reflection on what success really looks like, offering insights for entrepreneurs and anyone navigating their own career journey.

 
To discover more episodes or connect with us:



00:00 - The Success Myth And Its Cost

01:04 - From International Paper To El Salvador

06:35 - Learning Yourself Through Hard Management

11:55 - Fear Sparks The Startup Decision

16:55 - Screening Ideas And Finding Coconut Water

21:50 - The Leap And The Near Collapse

26:10 - Selling In Vans And Finding Yoga

31:20 - Momentum In New York And Big Geyser

35:40 - Negotiating Coca-Cola And The Exit

41:10 - Money Without Freedom And The Wake Up

45:40 - Buying Zico Back And Building To Last

49:05 - Discipline And A Playbook For Freedom

54:10 - Host Takeaways And How To Support

WEBVTT

00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:05.280
People talk about like there's three things you need for success.

00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.440
A mindset, skill set, and tool set.

00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:13.039
And the concept is well, skills and tools are your business and your training and your industry and whatever.

00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:15.359
Just have the right mindset.

00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:16.960
Well, how?

00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:24.079
I'm frankly drinking a ton.

00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:25.679
I'm working my ass off.

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My investments are all over the place.

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My marriage is falling apart.

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My health is not great.

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I kind of wake up one day and realize, wait, this is success?

00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:40.159
Like, what happened?

00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:45.439
I, like many entrepreneurs, believe the myth.

00:00:45.439 --> 00:00:52.640
Have a great idea, work really hard, scale your business, make a lot of money, then you'll be successful and free.

00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:54.880
And it's a beautiful myth.

00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:56.560
But it's a myth.

00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:05.040
I believe the most powerful journey, and really in many ways the only journey we're on, is learning about ourselves.

00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:09.439
Hello and welcome to No Wrong Choices.

00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:14.239
I'm Larry Samuels, two charts taxena, and Larry Shea will join in just a moment.

00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:22.799
This is part two of our conversation with entrepreneur Mark Rampola, the founder of Zico Coconut Water, and now co-founder of Ground Force Capital.

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In this chapter, Mark shares the story of launching Zeko, building it into a successful brand, and eventually selling the company while continuing a journey of self-discovery that shapes how he approaches both business and life.

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Before we jump back in, please support the show by following or subscribing wherever you're listening.

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We'll pick things back up with Dushar as the conversation turns to the moment that set this next chapter in motion.

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Were you with the paper company at this point?

00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:50.799
Yeah.

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So I was there for um, I was uh I had met my um then wife, Mora, in in grad school.

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She was uh at at uh Chapel Hill and we had met through some mutual friends.

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We moved to Memphis, Tennessee, together.

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And so I was I was with International Paper in Memphis for about two years, where I I I traveled a ton.

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I was in Europe, Latin America, and Asia supporting the businesses.

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I I worked for a great guy that kind of ran the division.

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So uh it was sort of a generalist, you know, catch-all strategy type role.

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But it was great.

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I I learned a ton, I really loved it.

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And then an opportunity moved up to uh uh opportunity opened up in El Salvador.

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El Salvador.

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And once again, in a company of, I don't know, they must have had 200,000 employees at the time.

00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:46.240
There's probably, you know, how many?

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There's probably one person in the company that is excited, jumping up and down, but also speaks fanists, has lived in the region, you know, works in the division, has an MBA.

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So I I got a chance to move to El Salvador.

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And so I moved with my then, by then she was my wife, Mora, and ran a little first a little business that was beverage packaging.

00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:15.039
So we made like gabletop cartons for milk and juice companies in Central America.

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And I had 50 people, I was the general manager for that little business.

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What did that experience teach you?

00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:30.479
Oh man, that that taught me, or let's say that teached me, I learned so much.

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That that five, that was five years, but even particularly that first year was transformative for me because I I had to transform.

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I had to become a person that I that I wasn't.

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Fortunately, that's one thing I I liked, and I did have this insight at some point, probably in grad school.

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I I remember I remember looking around at my classmates at at Duke and thinking, oh my God, I'm never gonna be as good in finance as this guy, ops as that woman, this marketing as that person, you know, all these people are way better than me.

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What do you do if you love all of them, but you're not great at any of them?

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Oh, that's the that's the manager.

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That's right.

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So you realized, oh, I want that.

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It wasn't like power or anything.

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It's like, oh, I actually I think I can probably do that.

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And then I also realized, well, wait a second, like these big corporations, IBM, Coca-Cola, you know, wherever, you get on this program and then you rotate around, and then you're doing this.

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It's like it's like 20 years until you're really running a business, and then it's not really a business because the back office does uh does accounting and the legal department does legal.

00:04:53.920 --> 00:05:01.600
The the place where in big corporations where you really get to run a standalone true business is international.

00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:04.480
And so I set my sights on that.

00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:06.800
That's one of the reasons I went to international paper.

00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:12.319
So when I got that opportunity, it was amazing because it's it's a standalone legal entity.

00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:15.759
It's actually a joint venture, international paper owned 80%.

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Some local families own the rest.

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It's got legal and employment and country representation.

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I need to know the ambassador and I need to know the trucking company, and I got to deliver dividends at the end of the year, come higher, hell water.

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I got to report to a board of directors.

00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:38.240
So I learned a ton and mainly about myself.

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I I believe the most powerful journey, and really in many ways, the only journey we're on is learning about ourselves.

00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:58.079
And so I learned where my strengths are, where my challenges are, what I'm good at, where I get, you know, run in the fear, where and and so that process was one of the most powerful of my life.

00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.160
And I look, I almost failed.

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Like it, it was, I had a couple times where I thought, man, I don't know if I can do this.

00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:08.160
I don't know if they're gonna let me keep doing this.

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Um, but I but I but I did, and I wound up doing a really good job there.

00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:18.160
And that became the foundation uh for what came next.

00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:24.399
Can you talk to us about you know Zico and where the idea came from and how that all came together?

00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:25.040
No, you're right.

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That was that was the seminal, that was the seminal sort of professional development opportunity for me for sure.

00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:36.800
Fast forward five years later, now I've been yeah, or uh four years later, maybe six years with international paper.

00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:43.920
I'm now beginning to think, okay, we've El Salvador is like, we've been there for five, 10 to five years, like it's time for a change.

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It's a small country, it's uh it's it's great, but we want to we want to do more than just this.

00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:52.000
And so yeah, I started talking to the company.

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I was getting, you know, internal development conversations about next jobs, and a couple came up.

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One was um to move to Brazil, um, another was to move to uh Europe and and do uh actually an HR role, but but for run human resources talent for a billion-dollar business there.

00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:17.600
The other one was they wanted me to be the global manager for tobacco packaging business.

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And I said, Yeah, you guys don't know me that well.

00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:21.040
That one's not happening.

00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:25.040
And I started to realize, like, oh man, I love this company.

00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:28.399
They've done great things for me, but they're headquartered in Memphis.

00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:29.759
I I loved Memphis.

00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:33.279
We loved Memphis, it's not where we wanted to be forever.

00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:40.639
So it was hard to imagine, oh, if I stay with this company, you know, I'm moving around, great career, but then I wind back in Memphis.

00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:42.720
And at the end of the day, it's paper and packaging.

00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:47.839
Like it's I I love my job, I love the company, but that that's not exciting me that much.

00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.279
So I started to realize I think I got to go find another job.

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And I got in the fear.

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Like, oh God, how do I get a job?

00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:57.439
What am I gonna do?

00:07:57.439 --> 00:08:07.279
You know, uh I'm um the job I'm probably best suited for means I live in Miami and I travel 150 days a year, running some business in Latin America.

00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:08.720
I don't really want to do that.

00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:16.000
And I started to wonder, and it was actually out of fear, like, man, I wonder, I think I need to start something.

00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.480
I just think I need to start something.

00:08:18.480 --> 00:08:24.079
And it wasn't like an excitement at first, it was fear, but that that's okay.

00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.399
Fear can be a beautiful motivator, right?

00:08:26.560 --> 00:08:31.279
A beautiful motivator, and it also came from understanding who you were as a person.

00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:32.799
That took which is huge.

00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:42.879
That took time to emerge, but yes, and I and I will tell you that it it uh looking back, I had until that time, I had no interest in entrepreneurship.

00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:45.440
I thought it was weird, like I didn't get it.

00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:51.279
I remember in grad school, people that were doing that were a little bit on the odd, you know, side of things.

00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:52.799
It just didn't make sense to me.

00:08:52.799 --> 00:09:02.960
But in Latin America, I started to meet some family businesses, I started to um uh provide some, you know, uh uh work with some family businesses, entrepreneurs.

00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:06.159
And by now I'm in my early 30s, probably.

00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:12.960
So I'm I'm meeting enough people and seeing enough different experiences that I'm I'm starting to think, oh, there's something out there.

00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:15.279
And I'll give you one little example too.

00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:21.519
I'll never forget International Paper acquired another small packaging business.

00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:30.240
And and um that the person that ran that business, it's a family business, was gonna be peers with my boss.

00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:41.120
And I remember my boss telling me, oh, Mark was his name, oh, he's not gonna show up at our next off site because he just made a pile of money.

00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:43.279
He's gonna be skiing out of his place in Vale.

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And I remember thinking, uh uh, I like that, I like that scenario.

00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:48.879
What's that?

00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:50.240
Yeah, what's that scenario?

00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:52.240
So I started to get interested.

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And then I then I I this is where I think my ADHD helped me develop one skill.

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I am really organ, I'm a planner.

00:10:01.120 --> 00:10:10.080
And so I started to lay out, okay, if I'm gonna do this, how what criteria do I want to use?

00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:12.240
What is a good idea?

00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:28.159
Is it you know about the size of the market, the uh margin opportunity, but it's also about what I want, what what excites me, what I think I'll be interested in for a decade or two, something my girls might think is interesting years from now.

00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:36.960
So I actually developed a set of screens that then when I would have ideas, I would run them through the screens and could sort of rank them and compare them.

00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:46.480
So I had a ton of ideas, but uh coconut water was on the list because I'd first discovered it in Costa Rica as a Peace Corps volunteer, just drank it like everybody else.

00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:52.159
But then when I was in the beverage industry, I'm supplied, you know, reading the beverage magazines.

00:10:52.159 --> 00:10:55.840
Remember, vitamin water was taken off in maybe 2003.

00:10:55.840 --> 00:11:02.240
And I remember thinking, like, okay, great branding, interesting, but you know, it's not that healthy.

00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:13.120
Meanwhile, I'm drinking coconut water all the time, you know, having it for uh, you know, after a workout as a you know, hangover cure, just as a great beverage.

00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:24.080
I was super active and I'd gotten off a gator eight years ago, and I had learned about the electrolyte properties over the years, and just to realized, wait a second, wait a second.

00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:31.600
What if we could position coconut water as a as sort of a next generation all-natural sports drink?

00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.279
And that got me excited, like, okay, that could be big.

00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:38.080
That's exciting, fits with my lifestyle.

00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:40.320
And that began, that began the process.

00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:49.279
I love how you're bringing us right through the brainstorming process because that's something that we we often don't get that little window into seeing.

00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.919
So you're telling me essentially in our audience that it wasn't really a Eureka moment.

00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:57.519
This is something that you were planning on and working on and striving towards.

00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:01.200
And you're doing this while you're still an international paper, correct?

00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:08.799
So we talk about courageousness with entrepreneurship, and like at a certain point, you had to take that leap of faith.

00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:11.120
What was that decision-making process like?

00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:12.080
And when did that happen?

00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:14.240
Oh man, yeah, great question.

00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:15.039
Let's see.

00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:24.480
At that point, I would have been when I started, what did when I quit, I would have been uh 35.

00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.399
You remember the day?

00:12:26.399 --> 00:12:29.200
No, good question.

00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:36.080
I'm sure I'm sure I could find it, and it was a kind of a series of moves telling different people.

00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:49.679
But I do remember, I do remember flying up to um to the my the headquarters in Memphis, and I met with my boss.

00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:55.600
I think actually that's when he told me, I told him I was leaving, and he said, Are you kidding me?

00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:59.039
I was just about to put your name in for the global head of tobacco.

00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.080
And I said, Yeah, perfect.

00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:04.399
Have you met me before?

00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:14.559
Yeah, I met the head of HR and I, as a debrief, yeah, she wanted to know what was going on, and that's I told her, I told her what's happening.

00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:16.399
And she she said, What did she say?

00:13:16.399 --> 00:13:31.360
Something like, um, I'd love to tell you that we could compete, like we could offer you so many, so much potential because you do have a lot of potential here, but something tells me it's not gonna matter.

00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:32.639
And I said, Yeah, you're right.

00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:34.320
I've made I've made my decision.

00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:36.399
So that that was a process, right?

00:13:36.399 --> 00:13:40.000
I I I have a high tolerance for risk.

00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:46.960
I have a little bit of a you know, leap before you look uh uh approach, ready fire aim type of stuff, right?

00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:49.120
Yeah, exactly.

00:13:49.120 --> 00:13:54.879
My um my ex-wife more was still very amicably separated, you know.

00:13:54.879 --> 00:14:01.279
She did not, and she's very rational, very adventurous, but she had some legitimate concerns and cautions.

00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:04.159
Like, uh, yeah, we have two little babies.

00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.480
Like, uh, what are we gonna do?

00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:09.759
How do we take care of insurance and stuff like that?

00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:14.799
She's from New York, and and I had concluded I wanted to move to New York to launch the business.

00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:17.519
And she's like, look, I got out of there for a reason.

00:14:17.519 --> 00:14:23.279
Like, I I'll go back for you, but like uh it's gonna be for a window of opportunity, right?

00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:41.519
So so it took a it took a while, it was a process, but at some point, and I actually launched the business before I I I I think I quit, gave notice, but then it it was like a three-month period of time because I I had a pretty big job and it took some time to manage the transition.

00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:48.159
So there was sort of a three-month window until we moved um to uh so I think we launched in.

00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:50.000
I probably gave notice in.

00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:51.519
In fact, I'm certain.

00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.279
I I can find the date.

00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:57.759
I gave notice after a first trade show.

00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:06.080
That would have been fancy food 2004, probably June or something like that.

00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:07.600
In uh in New York?

00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.879
In New York at the time.

00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:10.960
I feel like I might have actually been there then.

00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:12.080
No kidding.

00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:13.360
I think I knew I was actually there.

00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:14.559
Why?

00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:16.639
Why were you there?

00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:21.600
And I remember, I remember the response was so good.

00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:25.759
People didn't know what the hell it was, but we had a beautiful booth, beautiful branding.

00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:34.080
Not only what it was, but that just there was there was so much excitement about something new here that I realized, okay, this is it.

00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.080
So I think I may have flown from there to Memphis and given notice.

00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:43.679
But then it took three months until we, I don't think we moved until probably September or October.

00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:50.399
Um, and I'll can bring you up to speed on the whole thing, but we were uh bankrupt by by uh December.

00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:51.039
Really?

00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:51.519
Wow.

00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:55.039
So my next question was going to be so what was year one Zico like?

00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:02.000
Year one Zico was like, I'll give you one one little glimpse.

00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:05.120
Probably, yeah, definitely within a year.

00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:20.320
Um we had uh realized can't afford New York, can't afford afford Westchester, where where my wife was from, so we got to go to Jersey, which my wife was not you know uppity or anything, but you know, you get in New York as well.

00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:20.799
Relax.

00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:22.159
I live in WSU.

00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:23.120
Nobody.

00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:32.799
So we're we're in a nice little house in New Jersey, and I am it's late, late at night.

00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:46.960
I'm in our garage taping boxes of Zico for Amazon to pick up the next day, or for uh FedEx to pick up the next day, or UPS to ship to yoga studios around the country.

00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:52.720
And my wife comes out, and I know I can't remember, she didn't even have to say it.

00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:55.600
I know she's thinking, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:14.720
A year ago, you're managing 300 people, you're traveling business class, we're renting beautiful houses anywhere we go, we've got more money than we can, we know what to do we can spend, and now you're taping boxes in the garage, and we're not sure how we're gonna pay our mortgage this month.

00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.680
Like, what happened?

00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:22.799
Where did the name come from?

00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:23.839
I'm curious.

00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:33.039
I um my my sister is an architect, and she was involved, she did the original branding for us.

00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.680
And she and I um I again I set criteria.

00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:50.480
I want it to be short, memorable, um, non-offensive in the nine nine major world languages, and have either co in it, something referenced to either coconut or health and wellness.

00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:56.319
So she and I developed a spreadsheet of every possible combination of three to five letters, right?

00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:02.240
Pre-AI or something just manually, and then sort of went through the process of elimination.

00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:04.000
Oh, and and could it be registered?

00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.640
Could we get a URL or a trademark or something like that?

00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:14.079
And so um there were um, and Zico just sort of stuck short, memorable.

00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:21.519
We could trademark it, um, and had co in it for coconut, and it just sort of took on a life of its own.

00:18:23.759 --> 00:18:25.519
So talk to us.

00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:31.359
I I'm now imagining you in the garage, wrapping boxes, taping things up, sending them out.

00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:36.319
But even getting to that point must have been incredibly hard.

00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:37.680
How do you get started?

00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.920
Yeah, you've got the name, you've got the product.

00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.240
How do you start to get it into the marketplace and begin to scale your business?

00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.960
Yeah, you know, when I when I look back, one one thing I did really well.

00:18:48.960 --> 00:19:01.519
I I I think I was I was aware of what I didn't know, and and I was aware of myself enough to know where I had some big blind spots.

00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:09.759
And so what I knew I knew quite a bit about the supply chain because I was a provider to the beverage industry.

00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:16.720
So I knew packaging, I knew processing, I knew equipment, I didn't know anything about coconuts, but I knew a piece of the business.

00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.240
I knew nothing about the brand building, the go-to-market strategy.

00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:21.200
So I studied.

00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:29.440
I remember researching, I I researched every major beverage brand that had launched in the previous 20 years.

00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:38.559
Um, Red Bull, Monster, Honest, uh, no, this would have been pre-Honest T, uh, Snapple, you know, uh, Vitamin Watt, all those brands.

00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:43.599
I read everything I could to understand how did they go to market?

00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:45.279
How did this industry work?

00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.200
One thing I I wish I had done more of is really find some experts.

00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:54.319
I found a few, but I really just kind of did what people might call desktop research, right?

00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:56.960
Just what can I learn about this industry?

00:19:56.960 --> 00:19:59.039
And that was hugely helpful.

00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:11.440
And where I did leverage some of my network is I had a really good network of advisors and consultants we used for international paper because we also not just sold the packaging, we sold all the equipment as well.

00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:24.000
So I hired a guy that I knew to help me develop a supply chain model and and and including potentially building our own facility, but then also looking around the world, okay, where do they grow coconuts?

00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:25.839
Where who is doing what where?

00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:27.440
And we found some people in Brazil.

00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:29.440
So went through that whole process.

00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:37.759
And then I can, you know, sort of concluded, all right, you start in one market, like that seems to be the conclusion of all of this research.

00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:40.960
I didn't, I was cautious.

00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.920
Uh, in fact, I think I was cautious and confused.

00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:54.079
Like, okay, there's these distributors go to specialty stores like Fairway or Dagostinos, these distributors go to convenience stores, these distributors go to Walmart.

00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:55.440
Like, how do you do this?

00:20:55.440 --> 00:20:57.039
So I decided, you know what?

00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:04.720
I'm gonna get a van and and hire a couple guys, and we're gonna start selling out of the van and we're gonna figure it out.

00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:05.680
Wow.

00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:08.240
Do you remember your first sale?

00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:10.480
Do you remember the first person to hand money over?

00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:25.599
We we did, in fact, before we even were selling, we did a a trial run of product um with a couple flavors and and stickered a label on.

00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:29.039
We brought it to New York, maybe it was one pallet load.

00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.759
We had to ship in from Brazil at a fortune.

00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:38.960
And then I hired a small team to go out into the market and basically sample and demo.

00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:43.680
And we identified, I don't know, 10 different segments.

00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:58.720
Um, okay, we want to check out the Latino community, we want to check out the Asian community, we want to go after athletes, runners, basketball, dancers, um, natural food consumers, college students, and yoga studios.

00:21:58.720 --> 00:21:59.759
We try out all.

00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:00.799
All of them.

00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:06.880
Just, you know, get a cooler, go out, sample, you know, hey, yoga studio, you want to try some of this?

00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.599
Hey, at a end of a basketball game, try some of this.

00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.079
It kind of gathered all that feedback.

00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:13.839
And it was very mixed.

00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:20.160
You know, generally speaking, Latino community said, well, wait, this is supposed to be in the can, it's supposed to be 99 cents.

00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:21.680
I don't, it's not sweet enough, right?

00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:26.000
Like, okay, well, that's gonna be a challenge for what we wanted to do.

00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:34.640
Um, but the place where it really stuck was these yoga studios, hot yoga, bickram yoga at the time was just taking off.

00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.799
And and what I realized is, oh God, it makes sense.

00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:44.160
It's active, you know, 90 minutes, 108 degrees, right?

00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:47.599
And 26 positions or whatever it is, it's active.

00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.519
Um, they are it's predominantly women.

00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:55.599
They're, you know, of a certain means, you know, they've got a certain amount of disposable income.

00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:57.519
A lot of them are probably travelers, right?

00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:08.559
They're traveling to Latin America, they're they're eating at Thai restaurants, they're going to natural food stores, and and they um um are obsessed about health and wellness.

00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:14.160
And at the time, the yoga studios had vitamin water and smart water.

00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:18.240
Smart water during class and vitamin water after class.

00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:27.359
And I I realized, oh, there's no question we can convince people to drink this funky coconut water versus vitamin water in these yoga studios.

00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:33.039
So I remember the first yoga studios, I'm not even sure I met them that first day.

00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:37.440
Somebody else that I hired had, but then I met them soon after.

00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:42.000
Uh, but the feedback I got is these yoga studios want to buy it now.

00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.759
Like they want whatever we have.

00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:47.200
And I'm like, it's not even allowed to sell, like it's not marked to sell.

00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:48.400
Just give it to them.

00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:54.799
And so all of them, like then I met some of the owners, and they're like, We want this.

00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:58.640
So, so as soon as you bring it in, we'll take we'll take it.

00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:00.559
And those were our first customers.

00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:01.039
All right.

00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:02.079
So when did Zico?

00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:06.799
I mean, I mean, I don't want to say, yeah, I guess, but on a large scale, break through.

00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:08.640
Like, what was that breakthrough moment?

00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:14.400
Look, it's I I wish I could tell you there was one, it was uh it was a process, right?

00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:16.880
Yeah, it was a process.

00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:24.000
It was probably four years and and a lot of pain, a lot of difficulty.

00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:32.960
But I think the the thing, the thing that helped us was you know life and business and entrepreneurship is a momentum game.

00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:37.200
And momentum you see in concentration, right?

00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.599
It's hard to see momentum spread across you know too many data points.

00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:51.599
And so one thing we did good early on, I got some interest and sold some product elsewhere, but it never worked out well in terms of repeat sales.

00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:55.279
So I I I coined the term New Jersey's International.

00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.880
We sell in New York.

00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.759
That's it.

00:24:57.759 --> 00:24:59.440
And it's New York City.

00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:11.200
And so, and even then, we were really selling in and around these 15 yoga studios from Upper East Side, Upper West Side, Brooklyn Heights, you know, the you know the two, you can imagine the spots.

00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:17.759
So, but given we we were so concentrated, it started to like click.

00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:25.680
And so, and and what I remember, and that was both our sales, but by this point, we had a major distributor in New York.

00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.640
There's a big distributor in New York called Big Geyser.

00:25:28.640 --> 00:25:36.559
They're independent, they've put a ton of brands on the mark on the market, net tucked nectars back in the day, vitamin Water, smart water, and muscle milk.

00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:37.839
They took on Zika.

00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:48.720
And and I remember some of their distributors, because they're all at the time they were these little independent distributors running, you know, one route on a couple streets.

00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:58.000
And all of a sudden, I remember the first one took a pallet, 200 and something cases, to put on his truck.

00:25:58.000 --> 00:25:58.720
Wow.

00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:03.680
And I'm like, okay, this is now happening.

00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:16.160
And I and I remember um soon after that, you know, uh Koch had bought vitamin water, I forget what year, maybe 2007 or something like that, for like 4.2 billion.

00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:19.759
They were public, they never wanted that to have to happen again.

00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:24.400
So they formed this new group called Ventures and Emerging Brands to kind of get brands early.

00:26:24.400 --> 00:26:26.640
And I met somebody from that group.

00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:31.599
They were in New York checking out brands, they went the big geyser to see what's kind of trending there.

00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:34.799
And the guy told me, he said, Mark, you're not gonna believe this.

00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:41.680
We did nationwide research of trends, not just beverages, overall trends.

00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.440
And Zico showed up, not coconut water, Zika.

00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:47.759
And he said, Can you believe that?

00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.519
And I said, Yeah.

00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:51.440
And I said, he said, Why?

00:26:51.440 --> 00:26:52.240
Why would you believe that?

00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:53.599
And I said, Well, let me guess.

00:26:53.599 --> 00:27:00.000
You targeted, you know, New York, um, LA, Miami, Boston, and those cities.

00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:00.400
Yep.

00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:00.880
Okay.

00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.920
You targeted, you know, sort of 25 to 35 year olds.

00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:04.480
Yep.

00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:14.480
You targeted people that were in the health and wellness and and uh, you know, probably shop at Whole Foods, they're probably runners or cyclists, you probably included some yogis because that's trending right now.

00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:15.279
Yep, yep, yep.

00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:16.720
So that's our audience.

00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:27.119
So we targeted them for the same reason you are targeting them as trend makers, because I wanted you to conclude to find us this way.

00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:29.920
You know, wow, brilliant.

00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:33.359
Was your intention always to sell?

00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:43.759
It was, and to sell to Coca-Cola, for better or worse, from the beginning, very first, you know, strategy document or vision document, I wanted to sell to Coca-Cola.

00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:46.799
And the conclusion, the the logic was very simple.

00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:48.480
I don't want to run this forever.

00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.880
I don't want to pass it down to my kids.

00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:59.359
Um, and I want to scale scale to a point, sell it to them, and let them make billions selling something healthy.

00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.680
That was the audacity to think I could actually change the Coca-Cola company.

00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:04.799
That's pretty cool.

00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:05.759
Yeah, you did it.

00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:06.079
Really?

00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:06.720
Not a bit.

00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:07.440
Not a bit.

00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:08.160
We'll come back to that.

00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:09.759
Yeah, right.

00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:11.200
Sort of, right.

00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:15.759
Um so you you obviously we want to know all about this process.

00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:20.720
You know, we're gonna run out of time here eventually, but I mean, how what are the negotiations like?

00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:21.680
What did you like?

00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:23.920
Talk about when you knew it was imminent.

00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:24.240
Yeah.

00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:25.839
Um, did you feel good about it?

00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:27.279
What what was that like?

00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:29.920
Were you a thousand percent involved?

00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.880
Did you bring in people to help with the with the sale?

00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:34.079
How did that work?

00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:36.079
Yeah, it's it was an interesting process.

00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:38.160
So this was a unique process.

00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:48.160
Uh, it happened sometimes, but you know, I was clear, I I we were still really small.

00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:52.799
We were, I don't know, we were probably we were less than 20 million in revenue.

00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:54.400
So we were very small.

00:28:54.400 --> 00:29:03.599
And and you know, I I knew it was early, but I also knew, man, these things don't come along too often.

00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:06.160
There's only one Coca-Cola and one PepsiCo.

00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:15.200
And they also were interested in sort of invest early and have a path to ownership and help along the way.

00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:19.920
And I was naive enough to think, oh, great, they're gonna be so helpful.

00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:21.599
It's gonna be great.

00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:35.759
So, so conceptually, what we aligned on was a multi-step process where they would make an initial investment um and and uh you know, we'd get the capital we need to grow.

00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:41.440
Then we would start to figure out where they could be helpful, and then eventually they would have an option to buy it.

00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:50.880
And and uh so and you know, I I I pretty much negotiated that deal myself.

00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:58.480
And I I I did have a great lawyer, but I didn't have an investment banker, and the lawyer wasn't doing the negotiation.

00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:03.680
And I remember um, and there was a third party involved as well.

00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:10.720
There's a a guy, um, New York guy named Jesse Itzler, um, who uh founder of Marquee Jet.

00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:16.799
And so he was trying to start his own coconut water, he was talking to Coke as well.

00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:19.839
So I wound up structuring a three-way deal.

00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:24.880
And you know, two-way deals are tough enough, three-way deals are typically impossible.

00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:35.039
I think what helped was I I sort of set the stage like, look, here's the minimum it's gotta be, here's the kind of structure it's gotta be.

00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:41.359
So it it took me kind of carving a path and then allowing that all to structure.

00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:53.519
Now, this is where I will acknowledge like, look, I think having an MBA, having worked at IP, having international paper, having done all I'd done, I had what probably most entrepreneurs don't have.

00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:57.680
And I'll tell you in hindsight, I wish I had a partner at my side.

00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:58.319
I do.

00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:06.720
I wish I had either a bank or a private equity firm or a growth equity partner, because I think I could have got a lot better, a lot better um deal.

00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.599
You know?

00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:13.519
I'm curious when you structured that first deal and you took the money in and you set up the milestones.

00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:21.279
Did you negotiate a price that you were going to sell for then, or did you leave it open-ended to figure out later on?

00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.400
And we did we did a multiple.

00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:29.359
So so it so the price wasn't fixed, but the multiple of revenue was.

00:31:29.359 --> 00:31:31.759
So the good news is it was a multiple of revenue.

00:31:31.759 --> 00:31:34.799
The bad news was it declined over time.

00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:41.039
And their argument, you know, typically now I'm on the other side of this, multiples usually go up.

00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:44.559
The bigger the business, the more it's worth on a multiple basis.

00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:48.400
But usually it's not a multiple of revenue, it's a multiple of profit or ibita, right?

00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:57.759
But so, so it was, and their logic was look, we're gonna help a lot, we're not gonna pay extra for helping to build it, right?

00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.480
So it was a structure that that worked.

00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:09.039
At the time, I looked at this and said, Well, God, this is more money than I ever thought I'd make, or anybody in my family's ever made.

00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:13.359
You know, now I look back and say, Wow, I should have structured that completely differently.

00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:13.920
But whatever.

00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:18.160
No wrong choices, right?

00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:22.000
Maybe that was the best thing that ever happened to me, you know.

00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:26.000
So I'm curious about the other side.

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:33.200
So you get the deal done, you now have more money than I'm sure you've ever imagined having in your life.

00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:35.680
You've caught the car, so to speak.

00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:38.079
Um then what?

00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:40.079
Like, like what are you feeling?

00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:41.279
What are you thinking?

00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.920
Uh how do you probably answer that question?

00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:45.599
How much did you sell for?

00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:47.920
Uh if you don't mind me asking.

00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:49.920
First of all, no, no, not at all.

00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:52.880
So so so um there this was a multi-step.

00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.920
So the part I'm talking about was an initial investment, right?

00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:57.839
Then they had the option to buy.

00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:59.359
That took another couple years.

00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:04.160
So 2013, they did buy the whole company and we sold it for a little over 200 million.

00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:04.960
Oh man.

00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:12.640
Um and and so um, yeah, and I, this is interesting as well from sort of a career standpoint.

00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:14.799
You know, I didn't want to work for them.

00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.640
I respect them enormously.

00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:18.640
I've got a lot of great friends that are there.

00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.759
I had enough of five years of dealing with them.

00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:24.400
So I structured it so I was out day one.

00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:28.240
And that that I didn't expect to happen really.

00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.160
So it was a delight.

00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.319
So in many ways, it was amazing.

00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:42.559
I've got money in the bank, I've got um, you know, sold the company, we're building a beautiful house on the on the beach, and I'm, you know, how old am I then?

00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:50.160
Uh uh 43 or so, you know.

00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.440
And you know, if I'm not an idiot, I don't ever have to work again.

00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:55.119
Of course, of course, right?

00:33:55.359 --> 00:33:59.680
Um even if you were an idiot, I don't think you'd ever have to work again.

00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:03.200
I've learned I've learned.

00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:03.920
There you go.

00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:05.119
You know the stories.

00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.119
This is this is no joke.

00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:09.039
You know how many athletes, right?

00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:17.840
How many I know people that have blown through I know people that have blown through many, many tens of millions of dollars.

00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:21.920
I don't know people that have blown through hundreds, but I know they're out there.

00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:23.599
Hundreds, right?

00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:31.599
So, so, and I I will, I honestly, I can look back and see I came close.

00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:40.159
There's a there's a non-zero scenario where I'm broke because I was not prepared.

00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:44.000
I hadn't done a lot of the inner sort of emotional work.

00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.079
And so the first couple of years were amazing.

00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:52.559
You know, I'm taking time, I'm surfing, I'm traveling, I'm partying, we're renting houses, everything's great, you know.

00:34:52.559 --> 00:35:00.000
But then um, little by little, I I think I felt like, you know, oh wow, now people people are interested in my advice.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.440
They want to, they want my help.

00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:03.440
Well, they also want my money, you know.

00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:10.960
So I started investing in businesses and not a lot of discipline or process or methodology.

00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:15.199
So very quickly, I wound up investing in 40 companies and not small investments.

00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:16.559
Wow, not small.

00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:22.000
And so, you know, six figures and and some a couple even bigger.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:40.559
And and uh and I realized some a couple years later, like also I'm frankly drinking a ton, I'm working my ass off, my investments are all over the place, my marriage is falling apart, my health is not great.

00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:45.119
I kind of wake up one day and realize, wait, this is success?

00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:49.119
Like, what happened, you know?

00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:57.199
And and so that that began a whole life transformation for me that took about seven years.

00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:10.559
But that's um, you know, it wasn't wasn't all it was beautiful, it was wonderful, but it was definitely not all that I had thought that the myth would would would deliver me, you know, this fantasy would deliver for me.

00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:17.519
Yeah, and this is a lot of what the genesis of the book is, is right learning these very valuable and difficult lessons.

00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:22.239
Just before we move on to some other stuff, can you put the bow on Zico?

00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.599
When did you go back and reacquire that and why did you do that?

00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:26.159
Yep.

00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:40.320
So 2013 sold it all, and then um became an angel investor, then started our first funds under the name of Power Plant Partners, then raised a bigger fund under ground fourth capital.

00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:44.639
But along the way, I think this was before we were at the tail end of our second fund.

00:36:44.639 --> 00:36:47.519
I now have you know institutional investment firm.

00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:50.239
I've got partners and a and a and a team.

00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:51.519
We're looking at investments.

00:36:51.519 --> 00:36:53.679
We're looking at growth stage investments.

00:36:53.679 --> 00:37:05.280
And I get a I I get a call from from someone um in Coca-Cola that's basically giving me a heads up that the following morning, there's gonna be a Wall Street Journal article.

00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:07.840
This was 2010.

00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:11.760
No, 20, sorry, sorry, 20, 2020, post-COVID.

00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:13.920
Wall Street Journal article is gonna leak.

00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:18.079
Coke is selling off for shutting down 200 brands globally, and Zico's among them.

00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:20.239
So they decided to focus on their core.

00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:22.320
A lot of big strategics did this post-COVID.

00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:25.920
Forget all this little stuff, just sell Coke.

00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:29.039
And so um, they were gonna sell off Zico.

00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:36.559
And so I talked to my business partner, Dan, and said, Man, should we make a run of buying this thing back?

00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:51.360
And so we put together a thesis and a team and and bought it, bought it, bought the brand and the brand only, meaning we didn't buy an ongoing business, and then put a team in place that started to build back, build back the business.

00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.320
And that's been so that's been since 2020.

00:37:54.320 --> 00:38:03.119
So we're we're five years in, and it's been it's taken longer, it's been harder, it's taken more money than I we expected.

00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:09.199
But by next year, it'll be big, it should be bigger than it was when I sold it to Cook the first time.

00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:11.519
And I could tell you one big difference.

00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:16.000
I I I don't love this, admitting this, but I can own it.

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:21.199
Once Cook made a minority investment, the game was on and it was built to sell.

00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:24.079
Now it's built to last.

00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:27.280
It's built to last forever.

00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:30.960
Maybe somebody buys it, but it's built forever.

00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:32.400
And you took your baby back.

00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:34.320
I took my baby back.

00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:36.079
You've got two daughters.

00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:37.119
There you go.

00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.639
And and little Zico, he was a rabbunctious little guy.

00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:42.320
I was happy to get him out of the house.

00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:43.840
But you know what he came back?

00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:44.559
He came back.

00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:45.360
I love it.

00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:49.760
Uh, I'd be remiss if we didn't ask this question before this interview ended.

00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:53.360
Um, because I you talk about it so much in your book, and I took so much out of it.

00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:57.440
Um, can someone without discipline achieve these things at the highest level?

00:38:57.440 --> 00:38:58.320
Oh god.

00:38:58.559 --> 00:38:59.840
I haven't seen it.

00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:01.039
I haven't seen it.

00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:14.719
I I I I see, I used to believe, I think whether it was a true belief or just this sort of unconscious myth, if I make enough money, then I could do whatever the hell I want, whenever I want.

00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:16.480
I don't have to be disciplined.

00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:17.440
I don't have to.

00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:19.039
I know the lazy one in me.

00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:23.440
I know the one that wants to, you know, the prior me.

00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:32.400
You know, have champagne in the morning, you know, work out, do what I want to do, have a glass of wine at lunch, you know, um, and just do whatever the hell I want to do.

00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.400
I don't even have to worry about managing my money.

00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:36.719
Like it just, it just flows in, right?

00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:46.079
And and uh and I realized, yeah, it doesn't quite work that way, at least not for me, and very few people I know.

00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:47.679
Very few.

00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:51.920
And and I I've learned that that's been a painful, painful lesson.

00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:58.159
Like when I look back on my early personal investing track record, it's not great.

00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:02.960
Thank fortunately I had a couple big wins, but like I got way over my skis.

00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:07.119
I got way over source, and I hear this story all the time from entrepreneurs.

00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:11.440
When I share this, I have people come up to me or call me up and say, Oh my God, me too.

00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.559
Me too.

00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:14.480
It takes discipline.

00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:16.719
And that that there's a way to build it.

00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:20.960
And I go into that in my book, but no, I don't think that's possible.

00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:23.920
Let's talk about the book.

00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:26.559
So we've all you know poured through it.

00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:28.400
We've all been inspired by it.

00:40:28.400 --> 00:40:37.360
We could all frame it in our own way, uh, but nobody could frame the story and frame the key message better than you.

00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:40.800
How would you tell the world?

00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:44.239
You know, just just tell us, just set up the story for us.

00:40:44.639 --> 00:40:52.320
I would say that the way the way I like to set this up is I, like many entrepreneurs, believe the myth.

00:40:52.320 --> 00:41:03.119
Have a great idea, work really hard, scale your business, make a lot of money, then you'll be successful and free.

00:41:03.119 --> 00:41:08.639
And it's a beautiful myth, but it's a myth.

00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:12.559
And in my journey, I realized that I technically won.

00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:16.480
I I did that and sold the business and had the success.

00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:21.760
And but I but over time I started to realize I didn't really feel free.

00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:31.679
I felt trapped by the same emotions and limiting beliefs and more desire for more in the next car to chase, as you said, right?

00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:45.519
And I see this all the time with entrepreneurs, and whether it's millions, tens of millions, hundreds of millions, or billions, it is absolutely no guarantee of freedom.

00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:48.480
And that's for the successful ones.

00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:56.800
And then you have the 90% plus of entrepreneurs that are either quote unquote fail or somewhere in the middle.

00:41:56.800 --> 00:41:59.440
And what kind of setup is it?

00:41:59.440 --> 00:42:02.159
Like what they can never be free, right?

00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:03.199
Ever?

00:42:03.199 --> 00:42:03.760
Right.

00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:11.280
So so I when I started to realize that, I started the question, God, is there a different way?

00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:15.039
What if I started with freedom first?

00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:17.440
Start with the end in mind, we're told, right?

00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:20.800
Okay, this is what I want, this is what I'm gonna start with.

00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:22.480
What would that look like?

00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:27.440
And could it in fact deliver even better results in business?

00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:31.039
Could I still be active and competitive and driven in business?

00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:34.159
And what I found is, in fact, yeah.

00:42:34.159 --> 00:43:01.760
And in fact, I started to realize myself, and after talking, you know, work with hundreds of entrepreneurs, uh there's this there's this gap in our like mental programming and software that traps us in this ideal way to be an entrepreneur, to be successful, to be a man, to be a person, uh that is so ingrained in us that we f we we we just follow it.

00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:05.760
Little things like there's no place for emotions in business, right?

00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:14.639
That to be successful, you have to do but bub but versus let's talk about Larry, what Larry needs to do.

00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:16.400
How does Larry build his life?

00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:17.760
How does Mark build his life?

00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.840
They may be completely different, right?

00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:31.440
And so I went on my own journey to say, how do I break free of all this prior beliefs and myths I had to chart the life I want?

00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:33.440
And I learn by writing.

00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:35.519
That's how I carve, carve.

00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:42.400
I'm not great at as great learning by reading, believe we talked about experience, but I do work things out by writing.

00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:44.159
So I came up with my own system.

00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:59.760
I sort of hacked my own operating system, picked up some tools and techniques from, you know, and worked with a ton of world class coaches, therapists, neuroscientists, psychoanalysts, you know, uh uh um spiritual teachers and guides.

00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:06.480
And then consulting and working with hundreds of entrepreneurs came up with this methodology that works for me.

00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:14.480
I started using it in my business with my partner and my team and started getting feedback like, wow, this is amazing.

00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:15.760
And what has happened?

00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:16.800
What are you drinking?

00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:18.239
Like what shift is it?

00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:19.199
Coconut water.

00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:22.800
What is in that coconut water?

00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:26.159
I I started to I decided, you know what?

00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:27.599
I'm going to share this.

00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:42.639
If it if it resonates with anyone, amazing, but at least for me, it I wanted to, to your point, put a bow on like this chapter of my life as I prepare for the for the for the back half of my life.

00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:46.719
Well, I will share that it's been you know very helpful to me.

00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:48.079
You know, I'll share.

00:44:48.079 --> 00:44:55.199
I sold a company, you know, six plus years ago, and I went through part of what you went through.

00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:58.400
And I caught the car and I came out the other side.

00:44:58.400 --> 00:45:09.840
And I have personally been going through this process of, okay, now that I'm safe, know that I'm now that I'm no longer driven by fear or all those other things that that were driving me for so long.

00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:11.840
It's like, okay, now what?

00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:17.039
And to your point, I thought that that freedom was going to be right in front of my face on the other side.

00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:19.440
And you take a deep breath, you'd take a step back.

00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:30.000
But if you're wired in a particular way and you're used to striving and driving and doing all those different things, it's impossible to shut it off.

00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:38.639
And there's this discovery process that that you go through and that I have gone through to figure out, you know, what creates meaning on the other side.

00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:42.880
So sitting down reading your book, um, it's like, oh yeah, that's me.

00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:43.280
That's me.

00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:45.599
Like it it's so resonated.

00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:49.039
So I thank you for putting everything that it's been in my head on paper.

00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:49.519
You're welcome.

00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:50.559
I appreciate hearing that.

00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:53.280
Look, you you said a couple things that that I think are so powerful.

00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:54.480
One is meaning.

00:45:54.480 --> 00:46:00.400
I do think that's that's a powerful concept that gets lost, the distinction between success and meaning.

00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:06.719
And the other thing I'll say is, you know, you you said it's impossible, but yet you're finding your own possibility to rewire, right?

00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:07.039
Yep.

00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:13.360
And the other thing I'd say is I I I hear from a lot of um, you know, younger entrepreneurs or people that are kind of in the weeds.

00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:16.800
Oh, look, that sounds great, but like I don't have time for that.

00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:18.480
You know, maybe later.

00:46:18.480 --> 00:46:21.360
That's great for him or Larry because they sold their businesses.

00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:22.880
I'm in the grind, right?

00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:36.000
I am telling you the the applications for this, it is designed and built for people in the weeds because that is it is a trap to always push this stuff off.

00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:40.320
And I and I offer some really specific tools and skills.

00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:46.239
Yeah, people talk about like there's three things you you need for success uh a mindset, skill set, and tool sets.

00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:51.920
And the concept is well, skills and tools are your your business and your training and your industry and whatever.

00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:54.159
Just have the right mindset.

00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:56.960
How right?

00:46:56.960 --> 00:46:58.400
I get into the how.

00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:05.039
How are the things, what are the little tricks and hacks one can use immediately today?

00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:15.760
You don't have to study, they're just really simple little things that can help you feel more at peace, more free in the moment, and that actually leads to better results.

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:26.639
All right, so I'm gonna go kind of back to my initial question to you at that we started, but I want to ask one thing is that so your book, which is called An Entrepreneur's Guide to Freedom, is it really for just for entrepreneurs?

00:47:26.639 --> 00:47:33.360
Because I mean, you know, I've seen so many of the uh so many of your own little sayings, like you know, consistency is the refuge of fools, right?

00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:37.039
That is something I've used myself as a show producer, right?

00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:39.360
I hate being consistent when it comes to doing shows.

00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:44.400
Just roll out of bed, get yourself up and going, things of that nature, emotions or teachers.

00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:49.360
This is very much like what I use in my own my own daily life, in my own career.

00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:50.000
Life lessons.

00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:51.360
Yeah, these are great life lessons.

00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:53.119
So I'll go back to my initial question.

00:47:53.119 --> 00:48:00.239
Are you a life coach or are you someone who is someone who just is giving advice to entrepreneurs?

00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:02.559
What am I to you?

00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:03.039
Right?

00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:13.599
Um I mean I say that facetiously, but but like, look, I I uh know this isn't just for entrepreneurs at all.

00:48:13.599 --> 00:48:23.199
I I was very thoughtful, or I think I was, in you know, this is the audience I know, this is the crowd I know.

00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:26.320
In many ways, I think this is the the audience that needs it the most.

00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:29.679
80 plus percent of entrepreneurs will have a mental health crisis in their journey.

00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:33.039
80% of producers will have a mental health crisis in their journey.

00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:38.480
So, so it's not only for entrepreneurs at all.

00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:47.760
I chose to be specific to kind of you know get through, but my hope is and belief is that it can speak to anyone.

00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:57.920
And and I I I I feel like I I would be I would be excited about doing this work anywhere with anyone.

00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:00.000
I just happen to work with entrepreneurs.

00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:02.880
That's where I am, that's what I do right now.

00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:05.840
And so why not why not them?

00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:07.360
Why not them?

00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:19.440
As we close things out, uh young person, MBA, whoever they are, who has an idea, uh young entrepreneur, what advice do you have for somebody who's just getting started?

00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:33.199
Yeah, there's probably one little one little tool I would offer them, which is ask yourself in pretty much any situation, what's the story you're telling yourself?

00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:35.920
What's the what's that story?

00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:39.679
Could it be a fantasy, could be a negative talk track, could be whatever it is.

00:49:39.679 --> 00:49:40.800
Write it down.

00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:43.039
This business is gonna be huge.

00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:45.519
Oh, I'm not good enough to really do this.

00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:49.679
Whatever they are, write it down, and then ask yourself a couple questions.

00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:54.159
Am I certain percent certain it's true?

00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:57.039
What if the opposite were true?

00:49:57.039 --> 00:49:59.760
Can you allow for that possibility?

00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:20.559
And just that little that little gap between between not always believing what we think, not always believing the story we tell ourselves, is the beginning of a breakthrough that I think is both one of the powerful, most powerful ways for freedom, but it's the most powerful way for entrepreneurship, too.

00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:24.880
Which is we tell ourselves these stories all the time.

00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:32.719
And if we can catch ourselves and reframe them, we've got a better chance of sitting in possibility and finding the best outcome.

00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:33.840
Great advice.

00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:34.400
Great advice.

00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:36.079
Incredible advice.

00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:39.119
Mark, we're we're so thankful you joined us.

00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:43.840
Everybody out there, get the book, an entrepreneur entrepreneur's guide to freedom.

00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:46.320
It is absolutely fantastic.

00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:48.320
Mark, thank you so much for joining us.

00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:49.360
You're welcome, fellas.

00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:49.760
Thank you.

00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:50.960
I really, really enjoyed this.

00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:55.440
Fantastic questions, and uh I I understand uh now the gift, the gift you bring.

00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:56.000
So thank you so much.

00:50:56.159 --> 00:50:56.880
We appreciate that.

00:50:56.880 --> 00:50:57.679
We greatly appreciate it.

00:50:57.679 --> 00:50:58.400
Thank you for that.

00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:04.960
Oh, and for those of you who are watching the video, look in the background of uh Larry Samuel's uh little man cave right there.

00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:07.199
It is on the chair, it's on the chair.

00:51:07.360 --> 00:51:08.000
There you go.

00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:10.639
Good placement.

00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:12.400
It is really in pro in process.

00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:13.760
That is the need, Larry.

00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:15.199
I should I should like to have it right here.

00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:16.320
There you go.

00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:18.320
I should have them.

00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:18.960
I should have them.

00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:19.519
There you go.

00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:20.400
Drink this eco.

00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:21.599
Ooh, love it.

00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:22.079
Love it.

00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:26.639
That might be that that photo might be what we use for the episode.

00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:36.239
That concludes our two-part conversation with Mark Rampolla.

00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:45.519
We we typically run one and and we uh usually try to keep them somewhat tight and organized, but this conversation was just so darn interesting.

00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:47.440
It was impossible to do that.

00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:50.159
This was just such a fascinating discussion.

00:51:50.159 --> 00:51:52.880
Larry Shea, what are your what are your some of your takeaways?

00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:55.679
Yeah, first of all, truly inspiring story.

00:51:55.679 --> 00:52:00.559
I mean, yeah, you're just so uplifted like hearing his story and reading about his story.

00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:12.960
And I just want everybody to listen to both these episodes again and take notes because he literally gave you a front row seat to, you know, how to take an idea and bring it to fruition.

00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:15.039
And that is just invaluable.

00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:16.719
So listen again.

00:52:16.719 --> 00:52:19.280
We love the listens, yeah.

00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:20.480
And take notes.

00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:23.039
Um, but yeah, he talked about so many interesting things.

00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:31.119
I I feel like working in international paper really set him up to conquer all of the obstacles that he was gonna face when he started his own company.

00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:36.559
So, you know, your experiences lead you to another experience, lead you to success.

00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:38.159
And I think that's super important.

00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:41.440
Um, he said it was out of fear that he started Zico, right?

00:52:41.440 --> 00:52:44.079
Like what a motivating factor fear can be.

00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:44.480
Yeah.

00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:49.519
I I think it's fascinating that he had no idea what that big idea was gonna be.

00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:55.679
You know, he knew he wanted to do something big, but he had no idea it was gonna be coconut water and Zico.

00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:57.760
So that's pretty interesting.

00:52:57.760 --> 00:53:01.280
Um, and that and advice advice at the end, you know, what's your story?

00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:03.679
What story are you telling?

00:53:03.679 --> 00:53:05.199
And then write it down.

00:53:05.199 --> 00:53:07.679
And then ask yourself, am I certain?

00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:09.760
You know, what if the opposite were true?

00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:14.960
I mean, I love his analytical approach to conquering obstacles.

00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:18.559
It just makes so much sense to me, and I'm truly inspired by the story.

00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:28.239
Well, you know, for me, Shay, it's it's kind of similar in many of the ways that we we look at our conversations we've had in the past with folks, and that the notion of no wrong choices.

00:53:28.239 --> 00:53:33.760
And in this case, it's the path that is not the traditional path to success.

00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:38.400
And I think for a lot of, in a lot of ways, you know, that is the real story here.

00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:44.320
It's not so much that, you know, he had the idea, he had an idea, he had a job, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:48.960
It was that even in his early schooling, it was unconventional, right?

00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:52.719
He goes to the Peace Corps, he comes back to get an MBA.

00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:55.840
Here, the people there look at him and are like, well, why are you doing this?

00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:59.280
You know, you went to the Peace Corps, you want to get him, you want to get a business degree.

00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:06.239
I think some of that story to me is inspiring because in a lot of ways, it does motivate you to kind of prove people wrong.

00:54:06.239 --> 00:54:15.760
And at the same time, you have a great, uh, you have so much more of a fuller background than those people who you would say are there on the traditional path, right?

00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:24.320
They go from high school to college, do all the business degree stuff in college, then go on to business school, but with no real practical world and work experience.

00:54:24.320 --> 00:54:36.400
Here is a man who went to overseas, got to see parts of the world, was able to formulate ideas about what I can do next, and then bring those into the business world with him.

00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:44.159
And it made him a richer candidate, not only for not only for his MBA, but obviously for what he could, what he was going to contribute in the future as well.

00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:54.480
Uh to me, the this conversation is not simply about having the plan, fear is a motivator, you know, dreaming big, but it's also the notion of you know what?

00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:57.679
Not every path has to be the same way.

00:54:57.679 --> 00:55:05.280
And I think that's been like that's been an overriding arc in all of the guests that we speak about is that the path is not the same for everyone.

00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:07.599
There is no wrong choice a lot of the times.

00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:13.599
And everything that we do on that pathway to success will add tools to the toolbox.

00:55:13.599 --> 00:55:14.400
For sure.

00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:23.920
You know, and I think I feel like normally I'm the business guy and the analytical one, and not necessarily the the softy, so to speak.

00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:24.559
Yeah.

00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:42.719
Um, but uh, you know, this conversation, I found it fascinating for personal reasons to a certain degree, because there are some commonalities between our stories in terms of, you know, running a company, selling a company, um, dealing with ADHD.

00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:47.519
It's something that um I discovered in my late 40s, similar to him.

00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:55.840
And it was quite the revelation to look back at my journey and the things that I did and gravitated towards and the strengths and weaknesses and everything else.

00:55:55.840 --> 00:55:58.480
And and and he went through the same thing.

00:55:58.480 --> 00:56:09.440
And and uh it was sort of helpful to me because he wrote down on paper a lot of the things that you know I had experienced personally and thought about.

00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:35.440
And not a lot of people have gone through a self-discovery process in the way that Mark has and and and found a way to really understand himself and get to know himself and to leverage that, if that's the appropriate word in this situation, for the future and and to really put things back together in a way that make a lot of sense and provide meaning, et cetera, et cetera.

00:56:35.440 --> 00:56:40.000
Like it was just such an incredible story that connected with me on so many different levels.

00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:42.239
Um, he's such a fascinating guy.

00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:49.679
And for everybody out there, I highly recommend that you read his book, um, An Entrepreneur's Guide to Freedom.

00:56:49.679 --> 00:56:51.360
We've all poured through it.

00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:52.719
It's fantastic.

00:56:52.719 --> 00:56:53.760
I learned so much.

00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:55.760
Too short and Larry did too.

00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:57.920
Um, I strongly recommend that you check it out.

00:56:58.159 --> 00:56:59.679
Is it still in the background on the couch?

00:56:59.920 --> 00:57:00.320
It is not.

00:57:00.800 --> 00:57:02.320
Well, you know, there it is.

00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:03.119
It is, there it is.

00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:04.480
It actually is behind the room.

00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:05.360
So important it is.

00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:07.920
So important it remains in the background.

00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:10.719
So that is the perfect sell piece right there.

00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:14.079
Pick up the book, An Entrepreneur's Guide to Freedom.

00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:16.480
Mark, thank you so much for joining us.

00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:19.199
This has been such a fantastic conversation.

00:57:19.199 --> 00:57:22.000
We also thank you for joining us.

00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:28.400
If you enjoyed our conversation, please support No Wrong Choices by following us wherever you're listening right now.

00:57:28.400 --> 00:57:38.559
You can also join our growing community by connecting with us on LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook, or by visiting NoWrongChoices.com for great additional content.

00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:45.280
On behalf of Larry Shea, Touchar Saksina, and me Larry Samuels, thank you again for joining us.