In Memory of Bill Walton: From Basketball Courts to Concert Halls

0:02 Hello and welcome to a special edition of No Wrong Choices. I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea. Now, some of you may know that many years ago, Larry, Tushar and I had the privilege of hosting the original SiriusXM sports show called The Fellas, which was the inspiration for what we're doing today. The Fellas was a program that featured a lot of wonderful people who came through as cast members in one way or another. They went on to achieve great things and we had the opportunity to speak with some really amazing guests. One of the most amazing things or amazing parts of being at Sirius is we never knew who'd be walking the halls and who we would get access to.

0:47 So, with that in mind, every once in a while, we enjoy sharing some of our favorite interviews from way back when, and this time around we're bringing forward a conversation with a legend, a legend who recently passed away, Bill Walton. Larry Shea is somebody who was in the room. As I mentioned, we had many people coming in and out and I was not part of this conversation, but, Larry, I know you were a featured member and it really was an extraordinary day. So why don't you sort of describe the circumstances and set the stage for us? Yeah, sure, I remember this day like it was yesterday. But when you hear the sound of our voices you're going to tell it's a hundred years ago.

1:30 We sound like children and I think he even jokes in the interview. He asks if I'm legal. So, boy, I must've looked really young. Yeah, I remember this day like it was yesterday. You know one of the lessons I took with me forever from what happened before this interview even started Bill Walton, gracious, beautiful man, walks in the room and shakes everybody's hand and goes around the room and just so personable and lovely to be around, just joyous, positive. But one of the first things he did is does anyone have a piece of paper and pen? And we're like, yeah, sure, of course, bill.

2:10 So we give it to him and the first thing he does is puts. You know, like we've known each other since the beginning of time and it was just the coolest thing I've used it since. It was just such a life lesson. You know, like he wanted to make it personal and he was that kind of guy, so truly special. He's going to be missed. You know, I was watching him doing basketball games this season with Yukon making their run. He did a Yukon game, and he hardly talked about basketball. He talked about life on the air right.

2:53 But that's what made Bill so special. So, yeah, this was a special day and he's going to be very missed, for sure. I will tell you my remembrance, my remembrances of that day. I remember I told him and like you said, larry Sam, you were not part of this interview, it was myself, larry Shea, and one of our one of the guests on this show has been on Mikey M at the time and I remember I told the three of us hey, we need to be ready, cause this is Bill Walton day, and Bill happened to be at Sirius that day because they were starting the new Grateful Dead channel. And who else are you going to have talk about the Grateful Dead and do shows about the Grateful Dead than Bill Walton, one of the ultimate Grateful Dead fans in the universe?

3:34 If you've never had a chance to see the 30 for 30 that Bill Walton did, the feature on him, which was the luckiest man in the world, then you must watch this. And one thing you'll see is that he is by far and away the biggest, both in stature and in fandom, of the of the Grateful Dead. So I remember that. And the other thing I remember is that when he came into the room, came into the studio, I said hello, mr Walton, and his words to me were call me Bill. I just remember that. Just call me Bill and call me Bill. I just remember that, just call me Bill. And I was like holy cow. You know, this man is one of the great players of all time and the notion that he just wants me to call him by his first name, I was floored, absolutely floored. It's one. There are four interviews that we did over the course of our time on the fellas this one, don Shula, lou Holtz and Tony Gwynn.

4:22 Now obviously we've done a ton of others, but those four interviews to me are so special and it's like you said, shay, he was very welcoming, very gracious, very warm, such a gentleman and you know, I remember Charles Barkley earlier, earlier, saying something along the lines of the world is a lesser place because Bill Walton is no longer in it and he's very, very correct One of the most unique personalities to have ever played the game, one of the most unique people to ever, ever walk the planet. And we had just, you know, we were, we were, you know, lucky enough to just have a little bit of time with him, you know, 15, 20 minutes, and I'll and it's one thing that I'll carry with me for the rest of my life I'm so honored that we had the chance to speak to him and I'm so happy that you'll be able to hear this, this interview that we did so many years ago.

5:12 It's obviously dated, there's nothing current, but it's so you'll hear the warmth and the graciousness and the friendship kind of come through when you have a chance to listen. It's dated and it's not current, but in some ways it is. You know, I listened to it earlier today. I wasn't on the interview, so I heard it for the first time earlier today and he digs into some really meaningful subjects. He talks about John Wooden, he talks about politics, he talks about sportsmanship and things of that nature that are very relevant today, and I found it fascinating. I was very excited when I heard this conversation.

5:52 So you know, with that we're going to get to the conversation. I want to point out that this interview is provided courtesy of Sirius XM, and I also want to thank Mike Yam, who is with the NFL Network and was a very big part of our show for a very long time. He gave his blessing for us to share this today as well. So, with all of that said, let's go back to November 2005. Mike Yam will be opening things up for us. Welcome back to the fellas Sirius Sports Action on 123. Mike Yam T opening things up for us. Welcome back to the fellas Serious Sports Action on 123. Mike Yam Tushar, saxine, of course, larry Shea in the studio. And also in the studio, nba legend Bill Walton. Of course he's going to be doing a show on Jam on 17. You can catch that Saturdays from 9 am or, excuse me, 9 pm to midnight.

6:37 We don't want you up here at sunrise and the sunset. It's the middle of the night that I have trouble with. But for Sirius 17, jam On, we make all the rules we want. This is our show. We're going to take care of business. And we'll talk to you a little bit about the show. You also wrote the forward for. Ultimate Basketball, called. Ultimate Basketball is the Ultimate Holiday Gift. It's available in bookstores everywhere as we speak right now and it is the most comprehensive guide to over 100 years of basketball. It's a one-of-a-kind volume. It includes more than 500 photographs. The book looks at the sport's global presence. It's a decade-by-decade chronology of the evolution of the game.

7:20 It's got sections on the coaches, the history, the players, the rules, the referees. But my favorite part, guys, is the way that it brings in the atmosphere and the NBA experience, because there is nothing like being in that locker room, in the huddle in the game, on the bus traveling around this gigantic circus that I've been part of now for 30 years. What could be better? Who would have ever thought Goodness, gracious sakes, alive. Before you put the forward onto this, did you? Have any input in terms of what was going to go. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, too sure. I worked very closely with the NBA on a lot of their projects. Sure. And they asked me what I thought would go in there and I looked at all the galleys as they were coming out with them and made some suggestions and said you know what?

8:01 That's an awful photograph of Bill Walton there. There's no way I'd do that. I'll tell you what I'm flipping through, because I shot. I can't look that bad. The real question is, though, it was funny because the forward, which I'm very proud of I talk about what the game of basketball means to me and the exposure of the soul really, which is my life, and basketball the great celebration of life. But it's got me playing basketball a big two-page spread here in an NBA World Championship 1977, blocking Steve Mix's shot. I'm just glad they didn't use a picture of Dr J dunking on me. When Dr J and I went into the Basketball Hall of Fame together in 1993, it was in alphabetical order that night up in Springfield, and so we're all sitting on the dais and Dr J goes up there first with the E and I'm a W at the end, and so every one of his highlight films is he's getting inducted into the Hall of Fame as me dunking on him.

9:00 No, no him dunking on me. Excuse me, I blew the story. It's been a terribly long day guys. I'm very sorry. But Dr J, he did get up there and say I do want to apologize for dunking so viciously on Bill's face all the time. There wasn't one or two highlights in there of you. When you went up to the dais, were you dunking on Dr J or anybody else? No, I was not a dunker. I was not a power player. I was lucky. I played for three of the greatest teams in the history of basketball the. UCLA Bruins, the Portland Trailblazers, which was the youngest team to ever win the championship, and then the Boston Celtics, my boyhood dream team. But I was so very fortunate and privileged to play on those special teams and that's what we try to relate in this book, ultimate Basketball just how special it is, what a privilege and honor it is to play in the NBA.

9:41 You leaf through and you see all the legends, you see all the history, you see the coaches, the master teachers. But what makes it so special to me? because I know all these guys- is that it's not just their game, it's not just their physical prowess, it's not just their legendary status and their incredible accomplishments, it's their level of humanity, because every one of these guys to get to this level the John Stocktons, the Michael Jordans, the Larry Bird, the Magic Johnsons, the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, bill Russell, my favorite player of all time, will Chamberlain To get there you got to be a special person. And that level of humanity comes across in this book because without a sense of humane kindness in your life, you really have no chance to be able to pull a team together, because there's so much individualism out there, there's so much selfishness.

10:31 And that's what I like about being in this room on the serious team here with the sports guys, because it's just all happening with the team. And if Larry would just quit talking so much maybe we could get on with something else. And it was funny too, because I just looked at Larry and I said you know what? I got a quick follow and I know Larry's got a sheet of questions here. I'm dying now. Jump in, larry Elbow, on your way in. The greatest thing about basketball is that you never have to wait for anything other than the opening tip. I mean to get out there and run. You know what I love about Bill. In his forward he even writes if things aren't going your way, just elbow your guy in the gut. Get it going, hey it's not happening. My shot's not going down. The flow is going against me. Momentum is ebbing away Just bam, just elbow right into the guy's rib cage and you're back.

11:14 There you go, mike, what do you got? Larry, it's your time to elbow. Mike, what do you got big guy? All right, I'll take it. Well, right now, of course, we're talking. Nba legend Bill Walton also wrote the forward for—. Be careful how you throw around legend now. I think it's fair. I think it's fair. But Ultimate Basketball is the book. You wrote the forward for it. But I want to say this you mentioned, bill, that guys that maybe take their skills for granted, do you think the current NBA players? I mean? We saw a huge fight in Detroit between the Pistons and Pacers. You were there firsthand. Yeah you were there with Mike Breen. Do you feel like the players nowadays take for granted the skills that they have and to be in the position of how fortunate they are to play in the NBA? Mike is a different world than when I grew up, and everything has changed.

11:55 I mean, I don't know how old you guys are. You all look like you're younger than me Mike's about 12. Mike's about 15. Larry, are you legal? Yeah, I'm legal. Okay, okay, I'm legal. That's a compliment. But the whole sense of entitlement that we hear so much from. And my biggest concern is I'm a proud father of four young men who were in their 20s all of them and some of the most important things that you tell young people number one is the word no, and number two is the word or the phrase that the worst things you can do for the ones you love are the things they could and should do for themselves. And that sense of young people coming up, expecting to be given something.

12:36 And, as I try to tell my sons all the time, is that you're in a position, you're at an age in life now where you have to be the giver, you have to be doing things for other people, not having other people do things for you. And with the NBA right now, this was just a disastrous turn of events in Detroit. I was right there just an absolute debacle. It was the lowest point in my 30 years with the NBA. And the ludicrous explanation that these players had a right or a reason, a valid explanation of going up into the stands that is just off the charts. These players are totally responsible for what they did. And when I tried to explain to my friends who are not basketball fans, who are musicians, who are businessmen, and say well, bill, how'd the game go the other night?

13:23 Well, I was there and everything was fine. Indiana played one of the greatest games in franchise history, beat the world champion, detroit Pistons, on their home court. And then at the end of the game the players went up in the stands and just beat up on the fans and my friends said what, how could that be? And that whole sense of craziness that went down, I think comes ultimately from the isolation that the players have created around themselves, this sense of a barrier and to not be a part of the community. I know that when I lived at UCLA, when I moved away from my home back in 1970, it's a 17-year-old high school a little skinny, scrawny punk of a kid there Went up there to UCLA. I just immersed myself right into the whole college environment.

14:04 When I went to the Portland Trailblazers, I had some bad advice at the beginning. I went out to the suburbs and I immediately said, hey, this is not working. It should have dawned on me from the beginning. The house I moved into was on Nixon Avenue. That should have been the clearest sign that this wasn't going to work out knew that should have been the clearest sign that this wasn't going to work out. So I quickly moved right downtown and just got right into it and was riding my bike just all around and just being part of the community. And these guys are so wealthy with their charter jets and their mansions on the hill and their private security guards. Not to say that the wealth is the problem, because there is always going to be people who have great wealth, but it's how you use that wealth. And not to say that the wealth is the problem, because there is always going to be people who have great wealth, but it's how you use that wealth.

14:45 And some of these guys who, just you know, have no real sense of their commitment, their responsibility, their obligation and a duty to give back to the people who have given all of us the greatest life that anybody could possibly have. It's sad to see them have no comprehension of that privileged place that they now have in society. So, bill, and hearing that do you agree with the full year suspension for our test? Then I thought David. Stern was far too kind. Really Way too lenient. Kick him out. Termination there you go. Imagine, Larry, if you're here and you're doing your show and somebody doesn't like the show, so he's waiting outside the door for you and he's out there and you come off the air and he starts yelling at you and he starts screaming.

15:26 This has happened before. Little do you know this actually happened right after the end of the show. I know it happens to me all the time, and so you have to. As a professional, as an adult, as a human being, you have to train yourself. You have to anticipate, and these fans are passionate. They want their teams to win. But even if they throw stuff at you, you have to take the position that, no matter what happens, you cannot resort to vigilante justice. You cannot go out there and take the law into your own hand. There are trained authorities to take care of people who are over the edge, and I have a big poster in my office at home. I have a lot of posters. You guys have to come over. We'll do the show from there. One night. There you go, bud, I'm ready.

16:06 This particular poster that's appropriate here. It says an eye for an eye leaves the world blind, and we must be able to swallow our pride, to be able to absorb the criticism and to learn the fact that it's okay to disagree. Just don't be disagreeable. Let me ask you this then, Bill, and I want to tie it in a little bit with the book. I mean, there is a section near the beginning on coaches. Oh, yes, and of course I played for six of them who were in the Hall of Fame, and a lot of my coaches are prominently displayed in this book Ultimate Basketball. And some of the coaches in there, of course. Of course, Red Auerbach from Boston, Red Holtzman, Chuck Daly these men, in many senses, were teachers, and when you were, of course, at UCLA, you were taught by one of the great teachers of all time.

16:54 That would be John Wooden. Is that what's lacking in today's game? I mean not only on the professional level, but on the college level as well. I mean, of course, you have the Krzyzewskis and the Jim Boeheims of the world, but is there a lack of teachers on the collegiate and the professional level? The teachers are there. But all of us who have gone through the educational system I mean hopefully we're all adults right now and I'm assuming that we've all had the pleasure and privilege of having a great teacher no matter how great the teacher is, you have to have a willing student. Sure, you have to have a sponge out there. I've talked already in the show tonight about how lucky I am. I go back to the very beginning.

17:37 I grew up in the most unathletic household ever. I never shot a single basket with my dad. I saw him run one time at the church picnic and just fell over laughing. His interests were music, art, literature, education, working in the garden, walking in the mountains in solitary wilderness, playing the piano, singing in the church choir. But what my dad taught me? My dad who was my inspiration in life, not in sports, but he taught me about trust, about confidence, about family, about love and mostly he taught me about work ethic, because here was a guy who worked all the time, and he worked all eight to five every day, all year long, as a social worker.

18:21 At night he was an adult educator. We would meet him at Balboa Park, the big, beautiful central park of San Diego, and my mom would make a little potluck dinner. We'd go down to the park and meet him for dinner and then he would go off and be an adult educator at night and then all weekend long he was the music teacher. My mom was the town's librarian, and the things that they taught us about education, about the need to train your mind, to learn how to dream. And then all those choices that I made along the way the choice to go to UCLA and to play for Johnny Wooden. The choice to join the NBA and play for the Portland Trailblazers and Lenny Wilkins and ultimately, jack Ramsey. The choice to come and play for the Boston Celtics and rebound for Larry Bird and be the foil for Kevin McHale and just be torched every day by Robert Parrish and then have the great coach, casey Jones, who was as great a coach and as fine a human being as I've ever come across.

19:12 What happens and we see this right now with what went down with Henry Bibby getting fired Sure. Was that yesterday? Yesterday I've lost all track of time here, as we've just been going crazy this week. Everybody's complaining about Henry being so tough. Well, isn't that what a coach is supposed to do? I mean, when you guys were teenagers? Can you guys remember back to when you were teenagers? Sure. I can still think back. I didn't like my parents. I thought my parents were just too mean too strict, too strict at times, absolutely, and I thought my coaches were that way too. I wanted to do it the way I wanted to do it, but they made the rules and they were the authority figures and, yes, we fought against them. Yes, we rebelled against them and, yes, we had all those turbulent times of the 60s and the 70s, which were just absolutely perfect in our mind.

19:57 But now that we're 50 and 60 years old I'm 52, that all those things that they were saying, all those lessons in life that our parents gave us about discipline, about sacrifice, about commitment, about saying no, about the family, about love, about Coach Wooden and all those crazy little silly mantras that he used to come up with like be quick, but don't hurry. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail. Happiness begins when selfishness ends. I'm just looking at this walking antique saying what are you? talking about. Please help me. But now it's all come back and it's really not until, as I've lived this through now with my own boys, who are now men, who are all college graduates now, and that's when it really starts to change, when they start paying their own bills and when they start seeing the responsibility and how hard life is.

20:46 And to bring it all back full circle, mike, to your first question was do these young players who come out very young and from the very earliest stages, people are giving them everything they want and they never have any sense of how hard life is. I mean, you guys Tushar, larry and Mike you guys have worked very hard to get to this point. I don't see anybody coming and laying a $500 million contract on your table here to do this. They should, they should, they haven't. And I'm sorry for ruining your career with this horrendous interview here. Bill, you know I'm fascinated with your particular relationship with Coach Wooden. Bill, you know I'm fascinated with your particular relationship with Coach Wooden because you didn't always see eye to eye with John Wooden. We fought on everything.

21:26 And you mentioned Richard Nixon. He has a picture of Richard Nixon in his den. It's awful. And you didn't see eye to eye with that at all, did you? Oh? Nixon, I mean you talk about canned evil here? I mean, we all like the music canned. This was canned evil here and it's just absolutely awful on all fronts and it was funny because I got arrested and it was really the low point in Coach Wooden's relationship with me and there's been a lot of low points there, but you know he had to come and bail me out of jail. There was this time when there was a big anti-war demonstration at UCLA and I was involved and the police came and busted everybody's heads and hauled us off, all to jail, and coach wouldn't have to come and bail me out.

22:07 And he's driving me back to the dorms and he is reading me the riot act. I mean it is just vicious. He is in my face. Come on, Walton, what are you doing? You can't be getting arrested out there. You represent UCLA. You're the NCAA player of the year. You're the team captain, You're the champions, You're the academic All-American player of the year. What is going on here? I'm back in his face saying come on, coach. All my friends are coming back in wheelchairs and body bags and dismembered from Southeast Asia. This is not right. He goes. I know, Bill, I'm against this war in Southeast Asia too, but instead of protesting where you're infringing on the rights of others, you should be writing letters and I looked at him and said writing letters, what are you talking about? We're taking to the streets. We're going to stop this thing right now. And so, finally, he drops me off at the dorm and I say, coach, thanks for the ride, thanks for getting me out of jail.

22:52 That was not so cool down there. And right when he dropped me off, I said okay, okay. So I get out and this lightning bolt, flash of inspiration comes right across my mind as I'm walking into the dorm. I said letters. So I go down to his office, which was just down the hill from Dykstra Hall, and his secretary was there and I said Aldine, hey, do you have any stationery? And she goes yeah, bill, no problem. So she hands me this piece of paper and it's you know, this beautiful UCLA basketball stationery. It's got John Wooden's picture on the top of it. here it's got all the championship basketball stuff. So I take it and I go home on my little typewriter I hand, peck out and script this letter beautiful to Nixon and I just outlined all his crimes against humanity.

23:38 And at the end of the letter, as a team captain of the UCLA basketball team, I demanded his resignation and I thanked him in advance for his cooperation. I thought you were going to sign it, sincerely, john Wooden. No, no, no. So the story continues, so I take this letter into the locker room. The next day of practice and the guy goes Bill, what? do. You got there, man you making out of jail. Okay, we're really glad they arrested you and not us, because coach would really be mad Then you'd kick us off the team. He's not going to kick you off, bill. So I said no, but I wrote this letter, guys. Coach suggested that I write a letter. Oh, let me see. Oh, this is great, bill. So everybody signs it Like it's the declaration of independence and we're having this the the greatest time. And so I then, as the team captain, I take it into Coach Wooden's locker room where he's getting dressed and he says oh, bill, good to see you.

24:24 You know, great talk yesterday and let's move forward and get done. And he said well, coach, I took your advice about writing a letter to Hart and I went and I wrote a letter and I'd like you to read it and sign it, coach. And he said no, no, bill, let me take a look at it. So I hand him this piece of paper with his picture on the top of it and this letter written to Nixon, demanding all his resignation on the crimes against humanity, all the atrocities that he committed, and all the guys on the team had already signed it. Big Thomas Jefferson. Alexander, we're right there with you, bill and Coach Wooden. He's got his hands on the piece of paper and you can just see his knuckles going white the blood rushing out as he wants to tear this piece of paper up.

25:08 And so he looks at me, finally, with those sad, soft eyes of a father who's been let down by his son, and he handed me the piece of paper back and he said, bill, I'm not going to sign this and you're not going to send this in, are you? Oh? I said, oh, yes, I am coach. I took the letter back. He handed it back to me in perfect condition and I took it and I mailed it in and, sure enough, within a couple of weeks, nixon resigned. It was unbelievable. I've been writing letters ever since. I've been writing letters ever since. Not with the success rate, though, that I had with that very first one Very funny. We're talking to Bill Walton right now, of course, NBA legend, he wrote the foreword for Ultimate Basketball, Of course doing a series also on Jam on 17, Saturdays 9 to midnight.

25:49 We rock Bill. I do want to ask you this because I do want to touch a little bit about what's going on in deal. Before the season started he goes down to Miami Heat and I know you're a big fan of the big man, Absolutely For good reason. Are you impressed right now? I mean, I'm looking at this Heat team. They're not beating anyone good, they're beating up on bad teams. I mean, is that— but that's where it starts, mark, okay, and that's how long Shaq's going to be able to play, how long will he stay motivated, how long will he stay healthy? There was major concern in the Los Angeles Lakers organization that the guy had basically just thrown it in. He was breaking down, not keeping himself in shape, and so they gave up on him.

26:32 They said look, we're not going to go down this road, you're not going to work. Why do we want to have you on the team here? They sent him to Miami. They got what they think are some good players there, but mostly they were able to get something for Shaquille O'Neal Now he's playing well, they haven't been able to beat the Western Conference teams and, mike, you were right, on top of it, they're mopping up on the Eastern Conference teams. But there's a reason for that because the guys in the West have been playing against Shaq for a long, long time, and so they know how dominant he is, they know how hard you have to play, and they also know that what you try to do in competing against Shaq is that you hope and pray in the middle, and then you have to win all the perimeter positions. And so it seems like Minnesota and San Antonio and Sacramento were able to have some success against Shaquille O'Neal.

27:15 The Eastern Conference guys, they don't know that yet. They only play him once a year, twice a year. They always get hammered by the Lakers in Staples Center. They try to hang on at home, but the Lakers are really, really good. Shaq's goal is to make the Dwayne Wade, to make the Eddie Jones try to find a way to get Eddie Jones back to the NBA level and then to develop the young talent around him. Will he still be, though, the dominant force by the time they're able to assemble the talent? Because the talent is dispersed with the rules, the salary cap the expansion, all the different things, and the fact that there are not a lot of stupid guys anymore running teams. I mean you could always count on stupid teams giving up their great young talents.

27:56 I mean, come on up their great young talents. I mean, come on the New Orleans Jazz when they started they traded the number one pick in the NBA draft for a 35-year-old, gail Goodrich, who basically never really played again. And that number one pick turned out to be Magic Johnson. The Cleveland Cavaliers turned their number one pick over the Los Angeles Lakers for Don Prez Ford. That number one pick from Cleveland to the Lakers turned out to be James Worthy. Those are pretty darn good players, and so what's going to happen and this is the real challenge for Shaq and for Pat Riley is to get the players who are willing to come to Miami for less money to be a part of something really special.

28:37 I mean, it's a great city, it's a fantastic arena. Mickey Arison, the owner of the team, the guy who owns Carnival Cruise Lines I mean what a fabulous owner and boss to work for, and it should be, and could be, a dynamic situation for everybody to go to be a part of. But how long is that window of opportunity? Bill, I know we only asked you for about 15 minutes, so you've kept. You've been here way, way long. I thought we were just doing the introduction right now. That's very true. We're on page two now of Ultimate. Basketball we can check out the table of content. It would be wrong of me if we didn't even touch on it Now. As most of our listening audience knows, you are now a member of the family, which is so cool for us, because you're going to come up here every now and then it.

29:21 member of the family which is so cool for us, because you're going to come up here every now and then. It's fantastic, although I must say I did have a heck of a time getting in through the front door. I know, goodness gracious, it's like Fort Knox to get through here. But I'm all for security and we have to watch out for the nuts out there and people who are on the go, on the move all the time. You have to face it. We have to accept it. But I'm just thrilled to be a part of the Sirius family. I was going to ask well, what's it like for you to do a radio show like this? It's a dream come true, although I made a conscious decision that we're going to start the show after Coach Wooden goes to bed, so he doesn't have to worry. There are no rules. We're going to do exactly what we want on the show all over the place. We'll be playing music, we're going to be talking and it's going to be tons of different themes.

30:02 We have quotes of the day, we take emails from everybody and this is uh an opportunity. I work for ESPN all week long. I work Sunday morning through Saturday at six o'clock uh, for uh ESPN, and we're just on the go with the games and the sports center and all the, all the different stuff, the ESPNcom, and then on Saturday night it is time to party. Nice it is time to rock. It is time to open it up, turn the music up, sit back and let's have a good time. Goodness gracious. Before we let you go. I am the luckiest guy alive. It is time to rock. No holds barred here. This Bill Walton's one more Saturday night on Sirius 17 Jam On is your backstage pass to the joy ride of a lifetime.

30:42 I know you had asked us not to be reverential with you here and you know, and just have a good time with. I know we have, we definitely have. But let me just say on behalf of all of us, it is an honor to have you as part of the team and only that, but to call you a colleague up here at Sirius. Have you lost your mind? You need to set your standards higher. He's lost his mind, but not necessarily because of that comment, just so you know. Bill Walton. Of course you can catch his show Jam on 17, Saturdays, 9 pm, eastern time, to midnight, and also check out Ultimate Basketball. I did the forward for it. You've got to check it out. It's a really comprehensive history of the game. So Ultimate Basketball 500 photos, over 500 photos. This is special and they got your good side on a couple of them, and 499 of them are Bill Walton. There is no good side to Bill Walton.

31:25 There it is Bill Walton joining us, and hopefully we'll get you up pretty soon, though We'll be here all the time, guys, just any time. we'll be popping in, we'll be going over the NBA, we'll be covering all and maybe, maybe, in the next show we can get to page two. So that was an extraordinary conversation with what I think it's fair to say was an extraordinary man, Tushar. What are your takeaways? My takeaways were simple. I really wanted to get his opinion as to what he thought were teachers in this sport and day and age. And you know, obviously he was taught by the ultimate teacher in John Wooden and, to be quite honest, so many quote-unquote Woodenisms I use in my own personal life, you know, from failing to prepare with preparing to fail, be quick but don't hurry.

32:17 I actually use that one a lot and I don't use him because of John Wooden so much as I use him because of Bill Walton, and you know this is something that he used with his own sons. And you know he obviously went on to talk about guys like Jim Boeheim. Obviously you know there are other coaches who have gone on to really symbolize what it means to be not just a coach but a teacher of men in this sense, and guys like you know, whether it be Dean Smith at Chapel Hill or Mike Krzyzewski, the long-time coach who was at Duke there are so many examples that we have of men like this and you know, to get his opinion as to someone who was taught by the ultimate teacher and now has decided to use that kind of knowledge and pass it along to not just his own children, not only his own kids, obviously are men now at this point, but you know to kind of use that, that knowledge that he has has gained over his life, and you know to pass it on to others.

33:15 It's, it was such a special interview. I'm going to miss him Right. I mean, the world truly is a lesser place because Bill Walton is not in it. Yeah, I took a lot to to show. I think you hit on so many great points. Number one, though I think I needed to elbow my way into the conversation way earlier. He made fun of me. Number two how come we never went to his house and did the show? We got the invite. Like what's up with that? And we didn't have much of a travel budget back in those days. That's right. And number three we should have done way more poppins with him when he was around, because what a what a special interview, you know like it's.

33:55 We just touched on so much stuff and and as you heard the warmth, you know it did sound like we all knew each other for years, which you know he just had that way about him and you know it was really remarkable how he could just break down, as you said, to shot like this reverential wall that you have when this imposing figure walks into the studio and he's like call me Bill and I'm just a regular guy and like no, you're not man, you're not just a regular guy Like let's be real, we were the regular guys, you know. But yeah, I'm going to miss Bill Walton on things with life, on things obviously with basketball sports in general, but just yeah, his humanity, his way of carrying himself and always seeing the positive in things.

34:43 The world is a worse off place because Bill Walton is not in it today. You're so right, shay. A lot of people will never understand this, but when we were working at Sirius, and working on the night shift especially, you would see stars just come in all the time. It just became kind of commonplace to see these big stars just walk in. From so many of them they were just coming to do actual tracks for their radio shows. So you know, I got to meet Chuck D that way. I met Grandmaster Flash just walking the halls of Sirius and, of course, bill Walton who would have to track for the Grateful Dead channel. I mean, come on, it's amazing when you see that kind of a man, that stature of a man, walking around Sirius and then like, if he would just see me, he would be like hello Tushar, how are you doing?

35:30 You know, remember, this man is coming into town to do work. He probably had a basketball game to do that night or the night before a Knick game in all likelihood. But the notion that this man would remember my name, I guess kind of thought to myself at times. You know, bill Walton, why do you remember my name? It's amazing to me. I couldn't believe it. You know, and that's an interesting thought when considering what I heard in the conversation and you alluded to this earlier about teachers, he had and was taught by some of the greatest teachers in the history of the game of basketball greatest teachers in the history of the game of basketball and he also, you know, had a wonderful foundation.

36:15 His parents were very engaged, very involved, et cetera, et cetera, and it's clear that Bill was, you know, brought up and inspired by, and gained and became enlightened by, some really extraordinary people in his journey, which came through every single day. So just a special guy. We were lucky to have the opportunity, you guys were lucky to have the opportunity to sit down with him. I was lucky to have the opportunity to be around him from time to time. And all of that to say we're going to miss Bill very, very much. Our thanks go out again to SiriusXM for granting us permission to share that with you, and to Mike Yam of the NFL Network as well. For those of you who might be listening to our show for the first time, we have to take this opportunity, of course, to share that.

37:00 No Wrong Choices is a podcast that explores the career journeys of interesting and accomplished people in pursuit of insights that can help all of us with our own career journeys. This conversation with Bill Walton was a great expression of that. If you'd like to learn more about our show and what we do most of the time, you can visit our website at norongchoicescom. While there, you can connect with us and also explore many older episodes, including one that features Mikey M. So thank you again for joining us. A new career journey story will be up next week.