Get Back Up with Comedy Publicist Pam Loshak (Best Of)

0:02 How do you go from selling apples on the street to representing some of comedy's biggest names? We'll find out during this No Wrong Choices Best Of edition, featuring the comedy publicist Pam Loshak. We'll be back with new episodes next week. I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by my collaborators Larry Shea and Tushar Saxena, but before we kick off, I do ask that you support our work by liking and following no Wrong Choices on your favorite podcast platform and by connecting with us on social media. Now let's get started with our original setup of this great conversation. This episode features comedy publicist Pam Loshack, who has supported clients such as Colin Quinn, Michael Che, Neal Brennan and so many others.

0:45 To be upfront, she's somebody who I've been friends with for many, many years and Larry Shea. You may not know this, but you have met Pam along the way, so perhaps you're the best next person to set this conversation up. In that case, it'll be good to talk to Pam again. I guess I don't know how long I've known Pam, but we're going to talk to her today, which is pretty exciting. I don't know anything about PR. I don't know what it's like to be a publicist, to have a relationship with the media essentially is what we're talking about. I don't know how they get paid. I don't know how you get into it. I'm so excited to talk to Pam just because I know so little about this subject.

1:25 So that's exciting and I know her journey very specifically is fascinating, so cool to listen to her. The thing I really want to hear about from Pam is she's a freelance contractor for all intents and purposes, and when you own your own business and you have to worry about where the next paycheck comes from, it ain't easy, and I know that from firsthand experience. A lot early on in my career I was a freelance contractor, so it's not an easy life to start with. So when you have that opportunity to join a company, or if tomorrow some company calls and says we want you to head up our division, would you do it and there are always pros and cons to that decision I would love to hear what that thinking is from someone like Pam who's in that situation currently.

2:11 Well, hopefully she'll get to that, and if anybody's ever paid their dues, it's Pam. So, with no further ado, here is Pam Loshak. Pam, thank you so much for joining us today, thanks for having me. Hey, pam, nice to talk to you. This is Larry Shea. Tell us about the job. What is the job, what's your role, and let's start by giving people a good background of what it is exactly that you do day to day. So I do a lot of things day to day. People ask me this a lot and it's hard for me to sum it up, but the best way I've described it is at a certain point in a comedian's career, because I specialize in stand up comedians, who are very much Renaissance people.

3:00 So you know they have stand up, but very rarely does it end there. It's there's usually, uh, you know, a TV show and a podcast and a movie and a book and you know whatever else, sometimes, sometimes an off Broadway run, you know, uh, uh, like a one man show or one woman show, one person show. I know how woke your audience is, so so it's handling all of those things. And when I say handling it, there's a certain point where it makes sense for a publicist to be added to a comedian's team, a certain point in their career, and I'm kind of like a manager, except I manage a very specific piece of their career.

3:57 So I manage the media piece of their career. So, pam, now that you've given us an overview of what the job entails, of what your job entails a bit, take us back to the beginning a little bit. Tell us what got you involved, not simply in wanting to get into, let's say, the management of comedians' careers, but in entertainment in general. Was this always something that you wanted, even even as a, even as a young girl? um no, I mean I. It's funny when I look back at like eight-year-old diary entries of mine. I mean, listen, not once did I write dear diary.

4:40 When I grow up I want to work at a bank you know or? I want to fix cars or, like you know, it was always something in the entertainment industry. He was an entertainment lawyer in the music business. So he worked for Sony Music and then opened up his own practice and worked with various musical acts, including Cool and the Gang, with various musical acts, including Cool and the Gang.

5:25 So I do think. And then my oldest brother, who's 22 years older than I am, is also an entertainment lawyer in the film business. Not that I knew any of this as, like a child, you know a five-year-old but I was aware um of the uh like. I had family in the entertainment industry. So I think when you grow up in that um like it just subconsciously implants itself as an option in your mind that that can happen.

6:05 You know so um in in that way, uh, um, I knew that that was a possibility, but I don't think I was like thinking of that at the age of six. I mean Jesus what kind of intense people do you have on this podcast? Look, some of the people we have on this show are very, very focused. I mean, I thought I was for five minutes. I wanted to be a writer for five minutes. I wanted to be a jewelry designer for five minutes. At six years old, that's still pretty focused. I mean kind of just because my mom got me some beads and I made a necklace, although I will say I was always very business-minded.

6:53 When I look back in retrospect now, everything I did, I was always like how can I turn this into a business? So when I was probably six or seven, I went up to my mother. I was like I'm opening up a lemonade stand outside of my brother's little league games. I'm doing this. Mom and I like set it up and I made signs and I was very charming and I made a bunch of money. I think I made like 30 bucks or something very nice um, when I made when, for the five minutes that I was really into making jewelry I like made these necklaces and I set up a stand outside of my grocery store and tried to sell the necklaces, which I'm sure was illegal.

7:38 You know, I definitely didn't have whatever license you need to do that. But so I will say that I was always business minded, I guess. I mean, when I was very young I wouldn't play house with my friends, I would play entertainment manager and I would, and I would sit. I had a bunk bed and I would sit on the on the top bunk and I would make my friend be my assistant and sit on the bottom you did not do this. I 100% did. Granted, I did it in a princess dress.

8:21 We were in full makeup you know, we were like dressed up, but um, I guess that that is sort of the way my mind always worked, Wow. So when did you start to you know? Push towards, I guess the real thing. An actual job. I was going to be 10 years old. When did you bring? this to real life. Um, you know, I, you know I graduated college, I worked in advertising for five minutes because they recruited me out of college for a big advertising agency called MediaVest. Called MediaVest, and like nobody else had, all my friends were going to San Diego to, like, you know, get high and like hang out on the beach, and I was like, okay, well, how about I get a paycheck?

9:15 And so I did that and that was hilarious. I mean, I started that job two weeks out of college. That's not at all where I should have been. And so I quit that job and was cocktailing and just doing things around the city and like, eventually, I just got very um, this will come into play later, which is why I'm going to mention this I've never been the type of person, uh, I always need to know where my, how my rent is being paid. I need to know, you know, where my paycheck is coming from. So, you know, the fact that I'm a freelancer technically now is nothing I ever in a million years would have imagined I would be cut out for.

9:56 Um, so I, but, you know, going back, I think I was just, I was sick of like the, the instability of working at restaurants and I was really broke, and so I. I knew that I wanted to work in the entertainment industry, but I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. So I set my sights on getting a job at a, at a talent agency, because they're kind of the nerve center of the industry and I figured that it would be a good place for me to figure out what direction I wanted to go in, and hopefully I would have the connections to do so once I figured that out.

10:37 So you pivoted from working at the ad agency and doing other jobs to kind of to make ends meet, and then you moved over to the talent agency. Is that right? Yes, which, when you start out at a talent agency, you're not going to make ends meet. I mean, I started there as a floater, which means that you're, and I was working at WME, which is a major, major major William Morris endeavor. Yeah, it's a major talent agency and you know, the way I got that was that I at the time I just so happened to be dating somebody that knew somebody who was an assistant there, who got my resume in.

11:17 But I did not start in the mailroom, I didn't. You know, I was a little bit older than than the other people who usually who started, who who typically start at the level that I started at Usually people come right out of college and do it, and I was like 26, 25. So I just didn't want to be in the mailroom, I didn't want to do all of that stuff. So I got a job as a floater, which is an in-house temp and you report to HR every day and they put you on a desk if an assistant is out sick or needs extra help with a project, and you float around from desk to desk, which is actually better experience than being in the mailroom, but it's not the track that you typically take to be an agent.

12:10 I just I don't want to gloss over this part. I want to get back to this. But did you study publicity or marketing in college at all, or where did that spark happen? I was very high in college spark happen I was very high in college so you studied extracurricular activities my focuses were elsewhere. However, I, you know, I always was, uh, I always gravitated towards, was, uh, I always gravitated towards comedy.

12:51 I knew who all the comedians were at an inappropriately young age. I was always doing impressions in school. I was always the funny one in school. I was always a lot of things in school, but the but I was always funny. Um, I was, I was, I did a lot of theater. I don't think I've missed an episode of snl since I was like seven years old, like I. I shouldn't have known who, all the who, all the stand-ups were on hbo. You know, at the age of like seven like. But that's great parents, that's what I was watching or neglectful parents no, it was cool parents, that's cool parents um, but um so so I'm sorry.

13:34 What was the question? Again, when did I get the bug for? yeah, what was your major like? Did you actually have? anything cultural anthropology. Okay, so it was basically perfect this study of how us, how groups of people, operate and and and interact with each other, which is, I mean, it's all fitting. You know, considering where I've wound up, it's exact. It's like exactly what I do. I mean, it's just it was I've always been very interested in and very insightful of of human behavior.

14:21 If that makes sense, like I can tell you plenty of things that I'm not good at, for example, figuring out how my stove works. I don't know if any of our previous conversation is going to get on this podcast. We'll get to air frying in a little while. We talked about how I don't know how to use my stove, but there are plenty of things that I'm really not good at, but I am exceptionally good I'm I, it's my talent. I think everybody is talented in a certain area, and for me it is um. Understanding the, the language of the art of comedy I always have. It's just a language I always got.

15:01 And also, um, I always got. And also understanding human behavior very, very well, which is not always a fun thing. So when you were over at William Morris and obviously floating from desk to desk, maybe you didn't have the opportunity to kind of maybe I wouldn't say pick and choose where you could go, but did you have a preference of working comedy desks over, let's say, actors or uh or other or other type of uh or other uh divisions and departments? Well, the way it happened, the way things played out at, at, um, william Morris for me was that, yeah, I was hopping from place to place, and you know I was.

15:49 I always say that I was at William Morris at the right time, with the right attitude, because I had no ego about it, you know what I mean. Like I didn't go in there expecting to do anything high profile, I really just wanted to learn and figure out what was going on, you know. So, um, there weren't specifically comedy desks, there were agents who handled comedians amongst other clients, agents who handled comedians amongst other clients. And when I was there, it just so happened that there were three coordinators, which is, it's like a junior agent level.

16:33 Okay, um, who? And? And coordinators don't have assistants who were all in the TV department and all had a bunch of stuff going on, and they also worked with comedians. And so I went up to them and I was like, hey, I'm really interested in this stuff. You do If you ever need any help with anything, if you want me to get you coffee, if you want me to file, answer your phones, whatever like, let me know I'll stay after work if you want, or you can put, you can put in a request with HR to have me come help you guys. So I wound up and they did, they really responded to that and so I wound up being sort of their unofficial assistant.

17:14 And then when one of them, this guy, scott Lunker, got promoted to an agent position and, uh, was able to hire an assistant, he assistant proposed to me and I accepted and so and he was just I mean, not everybody people have like horror stories about working at agencies. I, I was. So it was such a wonderful time in my life working for him and I was there for, you know, two and a half years. He was an amazing manager. He was also really good. He was like the golden boy in the TV department.

17:54 So as long as I was under his wing, no, nothing bad was going to happen to me and he was very, very good to me and he was very, very good to me. You know that was sort of important in me developing how I wanted to exist like how I wanted to operate in the business world Right, right, right. And so what are you doing at this point? What was your hands-on? Are you interacting with clients? Are you doing administrative type stuff, like what was your? role. I was his assistant so I was like rolling calls, but when you're at an agency you can listen in. You're on the line when all the calls are happening unless they tell you it's private.

18:37 So I was able to listen to all of that and, like, um, you know, figure out what I wanted to do. And he repped at the time a relatively unknown Bill Burr. He repped Greg Giraldo, he repped White as Kids you Know. A couple of those people are dead now. Hey, yay ha comedy, big laugh. Way to bring it down, way to bring it down. Way to bring it down. Well, greg giraldo. I don't know if you guys know who greg giraldo? do you know who he was? yeah, comedian, yeah okay, well, whatever, greg, he died on my birthday, which is really shitty of him and, um, he was probably the first comedian that I feel like I personally knew, like I had a personal relationship with.

19:27 But so I was, I was, it was my, the actual work was all administrative, but I was also like going to, you know, when somebody had a taping or somebody had a TV appearance, I would go with Scott, my boss, to all of those things. Right and you would represent him, I'm assuming. Represent no we would just like like you would just go. I got you yeah, just for support and um. And then I decided that I wanted to sort of go into, like a, a world. I wanted to go into original programming, which is, which is a department at a network they call it a development department, william Morris, no at a network.

20:12 So I decided I wanted to go over to a network and develop and and work in development in comedy. Why did you choose to do that rather than go the the agent path? Oh cause? No, I mean, larry. You and I have known each other for many, many years now. I'm not an agent. I had to ask the question, I would not thrive in that environment at all, nor did I want to like it was not anything that I wanted anything to do with. Um so, um.

20:55 So I decided you know, as I talk about it, it's like you know the the decisions that I made along the way are, like you know, like I decided, ok, I want to work in New York. This was in New York City, by the way, and at the time everybody is like moving out to LA to, like you know, grow their, build their career in entertainment because the entire industry is out there, or at the time it was, and I was like I want to stay in New York and I want to work in development at Comedy Central in New York City. So basically, I was limiting myself to like two jobs, right, yeah right right.

21:36 But it wasn't. You know, I didn't pull it out of thin air. It was also that my boss at William Morris was like best friends with the head of the new york development department at comedy central. Yeah, okay, so which I? knew. So it's not like I pull, you know, it's not like I invented, like how? about. I theoretically had a nice smooth path I knew that I I knew that I had an in there. Um so I figured it was just an amount of a matter of waiting, which it was fun fact. Um. So the guy that I, that I did wind up eventually going and working for as as his assistant at comedy central is a guy named Lou Wallach.

22:22 As his assistant at Comedy Central is a guy named Lou Wallach. His assistant at the time right before me was none other than John Mulaney. No, kidding, really. Yeah, so I had to wait for John Mulaney's leave, which he did. I don't know if you've heard of him, thankfully for all of us, or fortunately for all of of us, because I do very much appreciate his work. Um, so then I went over and I worked at comedy central as an assistant, which I was like, oh my god, this is my dream job. This is it I've landed. I'm gonna work my way up, I'll be here for, you know, 30 years. I'll eventually be an executive. This is exactly what I want to do.

23:05 It's perfect. It's perfect. It's in New York, and it wound up being my worst nightmare. Why is that? Because I was working for a verbally abusive coke head. Okay, okay. That sounds unpleasant. I can see that being a problem yeah, that's that's a problem. Right, that's obviously a problem. As you said, you had such a great experience while you were at william morris. A lot of people expect that. You know that will be the way the career works. So I had. I had no idea I was so spoiled, I had no idea how good I had it. I mean mean also, you know Viacom in general and it's not Viacom specifically.

23:47 It's just working in any media corporation is tough, it's not. It's not. I would say, at best, if you're lucky, it's 50% about the actual work that you're doing. Right right. And 50% about navigating. You know whatever the corporate structure is and stroking ego. You know, executives' egos. Office politics. Sure, yeah, it's a lot about playing the game. And dealing with, and everybody's constantly terrified of losing their job, you know.

24:28 So it really is like eat or be eaten and and I understand, like rightly so I mean people very, very high up executives who are making a ton of money, get laid off or get fired for no reason just because there's a changing of the guards, you know, or you know their company merges with another company and like, and all of a sudden you go from. So there it's sort of you're, you're kind of shadow boxing all the time, like there's no way to feel like you have any kind of security.

25:09 You know so, which I didn't have to deal with as an assistant as an assistant, you're just there but I had to deal with the effect that that has on on um, the executives that did work there, like psychologically and how that behave, you know. So then, how long did you end up staying at a comedy central? I was there for two and a half years and so I was trying to so the so in entertainment, in in what I the field that I'm in. One of the hardest jumps that you're ever going to have to make is from assistant to executive or like assistant to junior executive.

25:53 You really have to have somebody who's like championing on championing you, like ushering you into through that transition, or it's never going to happen. You need a Sherpa. Absolutely, you really do. I mean it's, it's just so, and I was working for somebody who had no interest in helping me and, you know, lied about a bunch of stuff and like whatever. Ultimately he got fired. He works for Netflix now. He knows, I don't like him. I would say all of this. I would say all of this to his face and, by the way, every other boss I've ever had, going way back to my first boss at the advertising agency I am still in touch with and I have very good relationships with.

26:41 I adore them. They adore me. He was a nightmare. I have to ask this question right now because it's it's important because we we often don't spend enough time on, maybe, the decision we make, that we regret it, right, and or the the twist and turn in the road. Ultimately, it led to where you are now, which is fantastic. If you had it to do over again, though, would you have made the same choice to move to comedy central? Yes, because it looked good on my resume. Okay, that's a fair answer. You know I wish that there had been another position that would have had the equivalent clout you know for my resume in the comedy world, but there really wasn't.

27:29 I mean, I really had limited myself to like three jobs in without moving to LA. Yeah, right. So, um. So I was at comedy central and it really got to the point where I was, so um, I was, so it was like really affecting my like mental health, being there and working for this guy and I. You know things were happening like I would go. So at the time they moved offices, but at the time the offices were at Columbus Circle, which is right at the for those anybody listening who doesn't know New York City, it's right at the.

28:09 For those anybody listening who doesn't know New York city, it's right at the tip of central park, and I lived right at the end of the other end, of the other side of central park. So every day, just to try to like get myself grounded after work, I would walk the entire length of the park. Wow. Wow which is about home. I was living on 110th street at the time, so you were in the best shape of your life, I mean I don't know, I was just walking just because I had to like yeah, decompress, wind down, work it out yeah. And then I would go home and I would like collapse on the couch watching TV and I would start nodding off because I'd be so tired and I would try to stay awake, just because I needed time away from that audience, that office, like I needed, like it was bad, it was really really, really bad and and so out of that I was just like I have to get out of here.

29:09 So I started interviewing, which, by the way, my boss at from William Morris Scott, helped me, you know, hooked me up with other people and got me interviews, and it always came down to like me and one other person, but the other person was making a lateral move and I was trying to make the jump from assistant and I would always lose it, and I was going into everything. I mean I was I was interviewing for like reality TV jobs which, oh my God, thank God, I didn't get any of those jobs, you know, um, and I just wasn't getting anything. And then then, so one of the things I had started doing when I was at comedy essentials, I started volunteering to help work the carpets, uh, the red carpets at the comedy central roasts okay it'd be like a talent wrangler or whatever they needed, you know.

30:07 So I put that on my resume and claimed that I had PR experience, which I didn't really Well, maybe real life, you know practical experience. Yeah, I agree, I think you actually did have experience. What are you talking about? I did not have PR experience. Going on a carpet and like showing someone where to go from a car, from a car service is not PR experience. All right, that's relating to the podcast. So truly out of desperation I someone sent me like a list, a listing.

30:52 I mean you have no idea how much networking I was doing Meetings with everybody, general meetings, interviews, contacting everybody. Can you get my resume in with this? I mean really, really hustling. And then somebody sent me, I think, a listing that they had found on craigslist for like a junior publicist in the in the comedy craigslist of all places. Yes, the first time craigslist has come up in any of these episodes well that this was like 2006, maybe yeah, so like and six maybe. Yeah, so like that's what was going on at the time. And um, and so I contacted this guy and I read the description and I was like.

31:36 I contacted him and I was like, um, here's my rep, like I could give you my spiel, my like cover letter spiel, but you should just look at my resume and we should talk, because my and and um. So we did and he offered me the job and again, completely out of desperation, I took it um, just because I had to get out of comedy central. It was killing me, like I was not in a good place. And um, I took a 50 pay cut. I had no ben, I had no benefits. By the way, 50 pay cut, it's not like I was making a ton of money at comedy central, I was doing okay, um for still 50 of anything 50 for well, yeah, but I was you, like I was doing OK for somebody who was 30, you know, and single, and no responsibilities and no expenses, in New York City, with a rent, stabilized apartment.

32:43 You know what I mean. Like I was doing OK, but I. I took a 50% pay cut. I had no health insurance, no benefits, no, nothing, um, but and but I. It got me out of the assistant title world, it kept me in the comedy world and, um, it was just a place where I could go and still have a paycheck, no matter how small, and and and not be like emotionally tortured every day. Yeah. And and still, you know, I figured I could still interview, I could still do all the things I was doing, but maybe I wouldn't be so miserable and I wouldn't be an assistant anymore.

33:32 So I did that and I and I want to point this out because it's important I was 31 when I took that job. Okay. So I don't know how it is in other industries but like to be just coming out of the assistant world at 31 in the entertainment industry is very, very old. It's late in the game. It's very late in the game. So you know that's something that I was wrestling with, you know within myself, and but I did it anyway. That was, uh, 2007,.

34:14 Then 2008 hit and, if you recall, there was this little housing bubble thing that burst I do remember that great recession in 2008,. It wasn't a big deal. It was kind of like loosely reported on um and so everybody, all of my leads, all of like my job leads, were like actually we're not, we're taking this job posting down and we're letting everybody go. We're like laying everybody off, right. Yeah, no, I remember all that time yeah. So I couldn't even interview. And, um, you know, I, oh I, Larry knows this, Larry, Larry Samuels, the Larry Samuels that's on.

35:04 Um, you know, I always had a second job, I, I had a second job, probably until I was like 36. You sold a lot of apples, from what I remember. Yes, Well, one of my jobs, uh, famously for anybody that was in my life at that time is I. I sold apples Eliza Doolittle style at a farmer's market in Brooklyn. And I did not live With the accent and everything. No, because I was so bundled up, it was year round. So the only time they canceled the market was if the high temperature was below something like 21 degrees.

35:53 So if it was like 10 degrees all day but for an hour it was 25, you were, you were coming to work and it was and it was for $10 an hour and it was every Saturday and I had to be there at 7am. I did not live in Brooklyn, I lived on the Upper West Side. Oh, my goodness. Oh my God. So I had to. I was getting up at 5am the freezing, freezing cold um to haul my cookies, to port green, to sell apples, and it was like hardcore manual labor.

36:38 I mean you have to set it up. There were, I remember there were like six and a half foot tall wooden tables that I that you had to like unload from the truck. I mean it was a thing for $10 an hour, cause I need it. I just everything counted. You know, I I had restaurants that I worked at on the weekends. There was a short period of time where I was working seven days a week, um, but I don't know, I just wasn't ready to give up on figuring out a place for myself. It was hard though. I mean, I definitely had times where I was like I don't know if this is going to work.

37:21 I've got to figure out something else to do Because, don't forget again, I'm in my 30s at this point. Again, I'm in my 30s at this point. So all of my friends around me in the entertainment industry are getting traction in their jobs, you know, and their executives, and some of them are far enough along that they're transitioning to, like, senior level executives. You know, and I'm selling apples In. I mean, I looked like I wore all the clothing that I could possibly wear. I looked like the kid from a Christmas story who can't put his arms down. So, um and then, but you know, while all of this was happening, all of this was happening, I was also very much in the comedy world and I was at comedy shows all the time, and between my days at William Morris and my days at comedy central and then my days at the job that I had at that time in in comedy publicity, like I knew a lot of comedians and I knew the upcoming class very, very, very well and again, I was very aware of what my talents were and one of them is that I speak comedian, like I speak that language.

38:47 So all of these comedians also really loved me. And, um, I don't know it, just I. It just got to the point where I was like, how about? I remember there was a moment where I very clearly said to myself I was like, how about I stop ask, going to all these other people asking them to let me do what I want to do, and how about I just do it? And and at the time I thought to myself I'm gonna, I'm, I'm going to do PR for comedians, but also I'm gonna, like, pitch other projects. If I have an idea for a show, if I have an idea for this, for that, like, I'll pitch that.

39:31 And it's really not my problem what label, what title the industry wants to give me, that's their problem. What matters for me is that I'm working with talent that everybody else wants to work with. If I'm doing that, then they'll, they'll, I'll get, I'll get in the building. You know like they'll let me in, they'll have to. And so I started, um, and I also have an eye for talent. So, like, for comedy talent, you, you, you put me in a room with a band. I'm not going to be able to tell you what they're, but comedy five minutes I'll tell you.

40:15 And so I started doing, I started offering to do PR for all of them for free. So that actually leads me well into my next question here. So then, who was that first? Who was the first client that bit and said yes, pam, you're my guy, I want you to lead the way for me. Well, the upcoming class, the incoming class of comedians at the time was Michael Che and Pete Davidson and Dan Soder and Big Jay Oakerson, and I mean I don't know how much you know your comedians. Um, who else was around?

40:55 I mean a lot of big names, as there always are. Like you have it with every comedy incoming comedy class. You have the stars, um, and so I just started doing stuff for them for free, thinking to myself I'm just going to do this thing and the money will come because they. I believe that these people have careers that are big enough that that eventually, they'll be able to pay me. So hold on a second because this is important. Like you're saying, bring them this stuff, just do the stuff for them. You're getting them interviews, you're getting them scripts, opportunities.

41:38 How's that? No, it's interviews to support whatever-. They were promoting. Whatever they were promoting, whatever projects they had going on. So like one of the first big quote-unquote gets that I got was I got, uh, michael che a cover story on village, on the village voice, um, because he was just like this wonder kind, like he was like oh, who's the one, who's the like boy, g boy comedy at the time and so how does that put money in your pocket? Like specific. It did it. You bring him an interview for Village Voice, right Like what do you have to show for that?

42:21 Well street cred Right, right. It's just building Right, it's building your reputation. Yes. Yes, ok, yes. And going from there. You know, I I was doing things like that for comedians who were I mean, I bring up michael che, because he's like a household name now, but it was also just any of these younger, like hot young comics that everybody had respect for, yeah, so that led to I think he was my first paying client Hannibal Burrus. Okay. Who I also knew from you know the clubs, but I. But he reached out to me one day and was like hey, I have the special coming out, I'm looking to hire a publicist.

43:05 Can we meet for coffee, for a drink or whatever and talk? And I was like, yeah, yeah, but I don't think he would have done that had I not occupied a space in his mind where I was already doing this other stuff yep uh that was the beginning that started to set up and that. And then people hear that I that I was working with hannibal and I was getting him a lot. There was a lot of heat on him. I actually repped Hannibal during the whole Cosby thing, which, if you don't know what I'm talking about, then I did my job well, do you know what I'm talking about? I know what you're talking about? Yes, I don't. So, yeah, tell our listeners. Okay, well, the thing that the match that lit the fire that brought down the Cosby house was a stand up bit that Hannibal did at a show in Philly, and somebody in the audience, without his unbeknownst to Hannibal and without his permission, taped the bit and put it online and it went viral.

44:11 And the bit was about, um, how there had been like decades of rape allegations against him. And it went viral and it sparked everything that that happened. So was that an inside known story within the comedy universe? Is it what? Was it a known thing like an unspoken secret within the comedy universe, what Cosby was doing? Um, I don't know that. I would say that I I don't know if I was aware of it. I mean I don't, I don't, I don't know that.

44:52 I would say that Certainly I don't think anybody knew the extent that he was truly a serial rapist, predator. I mean, like I don't know, I mean I think some people knew that there were allegations, vaguely, but you know the media put a spotlight. The media really did not cover it. Got it. They didn't want it. It was inconvenient for them to. I mean, it was very different before Cosby, and Me Too. You know, like um, and neither of those sort of movements are perfect, by the way.

45:37 There's a lot of hypocrisy in it and a lot of. They're very flawed, but you know um. So so your role was to try to disconnect Hannibal from the story yes. And how do you do that? Well, first of all, I had every media outlet banging down my door for an interview with him, Every single one, From the highest of brow to the lowest of brow, Um, very aggressively it was. It was very surprising to me that you know outlets that sort of pride themselves on um, on being, uh, you know, distinguished, were acting like Tansy, you know Um.

46:35 So, and at the time, and the thing is like I think if you, I think if Hannibal would say this, like he doesn't regret doing it, but he didn't, he didn't perform that bit, to be like a social justice warrior, Like that's not what he was doing. And it wasn't a story about him. So you know, and at the time he had a national theater tour that he was promoting. There were other things going on. So what I did was I was like here's what you're going to do. While everything is as hot as it is now, anybody that wants to talk to you can only talk to you if they agree to not ask you about Cosby.

47:18 Interesting. You're not going to talk about it at all. And if we lose press which we did, we lost a lot of press fine. And then what you're going to do is, when things cool off a little bit, you're going to talk about it a lot of press, fine. And then when things then what you're going to do is, when things cool off a little bit, you're going to talk about it a lot. So that it's On your terms, so that it's not news. Yeah, right, right. So that no one can write a headline saying Hannibal Buress breaks his silence because you've talked about it all the time and also, when you talk about it, you're going to talk about it in a very boring way. Wow, so is that okay? So then let's talk about the notion of controversial topics.

47:59 Or, obviously, the Hannibal Buress is is kind of an outlier, obviously because that really started that little spark that you know I won't I'm not going to say it. It, because that really started that little spark that you know I'm not going to say it, lit a spark that I don't think many could have seen. But let's say controversial topics, is that how you would then treat then subsequent comedians later on say, hey look, if something happens like this, this is the game plan with how we go forward. Well, I have my own company now and part of the reason that I have my own company, one of the many reasons. I have my own company and I don't go to a big PR firm is because I can pick and choose who I work with.

48:45 So if there is a comedian who has to apologize legitimately apologize for something, I'm probably not working with that person. Anybody who says something, anybody that I work with, I would never ask them, as a comedian, to censor themselves or apologize for anything. Part of being a comedian is really honing your own voice. So you, I would never ask a comedian to alter their voice or pretend or anything, and if there is something that is apology worthy, again I'm probably not working with them.

49:33 So, pam, let's build upon the story of Hannibal. So you know you've been working with Michael Che, you've been working with Hannibal. You've been working with Hannibal. You're starting to develop a practice. When did momentum kick in? When did you really start to build out a practice for yourself? Well, part of what happened is that the comedians that I started working with for free, their careers developed just as I had counted on. So that's when things kind of started to grow for me. Um, the fact that I worked with Hannibal got around.

50:17 So, you know, comedians talk it's a lot of word of mouth, so like somebody might have had a special coming out or a tour, whatever they had going on, and they'd go up to Hannibal and they'd be like who does your PR? You know like who's? And he'd say my name. And then they'd reach out and like, um, although at that time not no one was really reaching out to me, I got a lot of no's. I got a lot of like. Typically, unless, unless you know the comedian you have to, you would reach out to their manager and be like hey, I know so, and so has this project coming up? If you're thinking about bringing on a publicist? I'd love to be part of the conversation, I'd love to chat, and there were people who just didn't pay me any mind mind because I was like I wasn't part of a big company, I wasn't.

51:09 You know who was I, I was just some schmo and they just didn't really didn't give me the time of day, but some of the other comedians did, because they spoke to Hannibal and then their managers had to pay attention to me. Interesting, so that really broke it open for you. Well, it was one of the things. And then, and and there were a few different clients that I started working with, that, different clients that I started working with that um, that helped that happen.

51:50 And then what's? You know, if you're, if you're working with, like, I have a couple of clients now. One of them is Sam Morrell, who's like super hot, super hot in the comedy standup world right now. Are you familiar? Are? are people. I've seen some of his stand-up gigs on comedy central okay so that so, and all of the comedians love him and I'm getting a lot of business has come off of that for me, because they all want to know who's doing his pr. You know, and he and I have very good relationship. I'm doing a really good job for him, so he, he, he throws people my way as well. So there are a few um, a few clients who have done that for me, but what eventually starts happening is that the industry starts knowing your name.

52:41 what's happening is that the industry starts knowing your name, right? So? I would say, you know another thing that happened, that that was the Oscar nomination for the Lucas brothers. That sort of put me in a different league. What's the story around that? So this was. I mean, it's hilarious, it's actually hilarious. This was in 2021. So we're in full COVID, right and um, I had lost all my business, and through no fault of my own, it's just. Nobody was touring, Nobody was, you know, taping anything. There was no work for to be done, but the one thing I was doing was my clients, the Lucas Brothers, had written a script for a film called Judas and the Black Messiah.

53:37 Oh my God, what a great movie, that is yeah and there were. There was all kinds of oscar buzz around it, so that was the one project I did and, um, so you know that's a whole campaign, the, the, the. There's a whole oscar campaign leading up to the nomination. Then once you get the nomination, it's a whole campaign after that. And, by the way, judas and the Black Messiah is not a funny movie at all but they, but they wrote it. It's not hilarious at all but it. But they wrote it and so you know, I was like doing probably the most high profile campaign, press campaign I've ever done, which they did get nominated, which was like a pretty amazing moment, um, for me and for them and um, but I then I'd like get off of whatever call or zoom I was on with them and like call up unemployment and get my unemployment benefits.

54:46 You know, because I was part of, I got a small business loan, like I'm definitely an example of, um, you know, a business that was able to survive because of the resources that that were put out at that time. Um, I mean, I would have figured out another way, I would have borrowed money or something, but like all of my business disappeared. So, um, so, but anyway they got, they got the Oscar nomination and that that put me in a different league. but it was like several leagues, you know, and so now I have managers that I've worked on various projects with and various clients with for many, many years, and I'm like their go-to person.

55:38 That's incredible For PR. So, between those relationships and it's not it's not all of the managers, it's, you know, it's it's like two or three, but that's all I need and they have amazing clients. So, between that and um word of mouth amongst comedians themselves, probably over the last, I'd say, year and a half, my business has exploded. And I just raised my rates, which was like a big deal for me. Not none of my clients batted an eyelash.

56:20 I was like, wrestling with this and wrestling, my God, they're going to leave. And I was like, okay, so for 2023, I raised my rates and they're like wait, what? Okay, wait, so what are we doing on Tuesday? Like it was nothing. It was nothing. Who are some of the people you're working with, Pam? Well, again, I don't know how into comedy you are, but some of the bigger names are. I handle bilber's touring, I uh. Colin quinn, uh, neil bernard, the lucas brothers, miss pat, ida rodriguez, sam murrell, jim Norton I'm probably forgetting.

57:05 So these are the bigger names there's like a whole other. These are your bigger clients A whole other, oh, dulce Sloan, who's on the Daily Show, nimesh Patel, veer Das I don't know if you know any of these people. Who else, who else, who else? Rose rosebud baker you probably don't know her. She, you will. She's gonna be a superstar um she's a writer to say a big roster of of you know well-known names that you know for for having hung in there for all this time it's. It's now come around and you're there. Yeah, and it it's recent, you know, and I'm very lucky and not one moment of it is lost on me, and you know it was.

58:01 I was very much a late bloomer. Um, I never and here we come, here we come back to I never in a million years would have thought that I would have been happy being essentially a freelancer and having my own business. I thought that that would, uh, incite so much anxiety in me. It takes a lot of courage to step out there on your own like that. So I have to ask this question because you're an expert, right? So who else would we ask this question to? Is it true that all publicity is good publicity? No, in what way Define that? In what way Define that? Well, publicity is.

58:42 Every company, every industry in the world has a PR department. So I can really only speak to PR as it relates to comedians. But again, this comes down to the type of talent that I work with. I don't work with talent whose work can't speak for itself. So, like when I uh, when I promote somebody, I'm promoting their work. So if it's bad publicity, then it's going to be bad publicity around their work.

59:28 So if it's bad publicity, then it's going to be bad publicity around their work. And and the the objective for my clients is to be loved for their work. Um, if you are on the real housewives, yeah, probably all publicity on the. Real. Housewives yeah, probably all publicity. Publicity is good publicity, that's fair. So, pam, as we work our way towards the end of the conversation, we always want to hit advice for young people. So if there are younger people listening to this podcast who want to, I mean they can't follow your path, because it is certainly quite unique and it's been an incredible story. But if somebody wanted to get to the point where you are today and become a comedy publicist, you know what guidance or advice would you give them?

1:00:15 Specifically to become a comedy publicist, or or to get in the space, If you if you know that you want to become a public, a comedy publicist, go get an assistant job at one of the bigger agencies, like the bigger PR agencies. I it's totally uh, stumbling upon this accident that I wound up at in the publicity department world. It was not what I set out to do, um, but I think in general, like career advice, what I what, what?

1:00:55 What was really valuable to me is, um, I kept putting one foot in front of the other. Um, I also do. You know what I also listened to like, um, a lot of like like sports coaching mentality, stuff, like a lot of like boxing mentality interesting does that make sense? who said it? And I know nothing about sports, but who's the why I was so confused? Because I know that who's the who's the one? There's a boxing coach who said get up, just get up, whatever you do, get up just get.

1:01:40 I would think that. I would think that would be every single boxing boxing manager. Yeah, but there was some boxing manager who said it, who was like in a way that I was like that and I and I. That plays in my head anytime there's a disappointment any. I feel like. I feel like that was in, I feel like that was in the last wreck rocky balboa movie okay. Well, I don't know where I got it. Like I said, I'm very aware of my shortcomings I do not know anything about sports, but it's but there was stuff like that and they, you know, I found the things that, like, really spoke to me. There were certain songs that spoke to me, so find those things that, like, keep you moving and keep and get the fuck up, no matter what, just get up.

1:02:25 And also, like it was really important to me that I knew myself very well, like I was very aware of what my strengths and my weaknesses were and are, and I'm very aware of what my talents are, what I had to offer. That gave me an edge. I knew I had a couple things that nobody else had and I knew that there had to be, like, I knew that there had to be comedians that would really respond to having somebody on their team who wasn't like a greasy, slick entertainment person but who also really intimately understood the art form.

1:03:17 And I really banked on that and it worked. It didn't have to though I would have figured something else out, you know but I, I really am doing, I'm, I'm, I'm so happy professionally, I, I, I can't believe how amazing my professional life is, I, I, it's truly beyond my wildest dreams, and there was a lot of luck involved, but luck is when preparedness meets opportunity. And the no-quit attitude which I had the good fortune of seeing a big part of this journey. Oh, my God, larry, you were there. You bought me meals.

1:03:58 I would have starved without you. Larry was. I've known Larry for how long now, almost 20 years? I was thinking about it Like 20 years. Almost as long as you've known. Larry. Shea. I've known her since childhood, so come on. I met Larry Samuels when I was working at William Morris. Yeah, at a serious event. So, pam, if anybody you know, for those people who have been inspired by this conversation and I know that you know a lot of the work that comes your way happens via you know, word of mouth and referrals, but is there anywhere you'd want people to you know be directed? You know website or anything of that that would be helpful to you no you can't find her but like.

1:04:48 This is the thing. This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Like, not like. There are plenty of comedians who want, they want a fancy, pretty website and they want you to come in with the boardroom. And then you know, I was working from home before COVID made it cool. Before it was cool. But you know I don't have a website. I do have, I mean, my Instagram is at Pam Loshack, but there's only like 15, 20 pictures on there, and they're all of my dog noodle. So I guess you don't need our help.

1:05:29 No, Pam, you are the first guest we've had on this pod who's said no, do not contact me in any way, shape or form. No, you can contact me, but there's nothing like you. giving me a follow doesn't do anything for my career, but you're more than welcome to if you want. Also, all the pictures are of Noodle. My dog is very, very cute. He's very silly, he's a Boston Terrier and he's the best. But I do not post a lot on there. So if you want to reach out to me, you can, I'll get it. But if you just want to see what I'm posting, what you can expect is like a really cute picture or video of Noodle, like once every seven months.

1:06:14 Perfect. Well, I guess we'll do the best we can to help you by putting this out there, and any assistance you're willing to give us we will certainly accept. So, pam, you know what an incredible story you know, and thank you, thank you so much for telling it to us today. Well, thanks for having me. I'm honored to be invited. I didn't think I mean truly. There were so many moments for so long where I just couldn't catch a break in my work world, like the fact that I'm like, getting asked to do anything is always something that I'm grateful for.

1:06:55 So that was Pam Loshack, my good friend Pam Loshack, who I hope lived up to the billing that I set up for her going into this conversation. You know what an incredible person who persevered through so so much. You really picked up on. The word that I really wanted to talk about here is that perseverance. You know she talked about this notion of you know, the first job she had great job. The next job, terrible job. Really really hated the person that she worked for at that point. And look, it ain't easy. You know, when you have that situation, how do you get out of it, how quickly do you get out of it? And then, obviously, you know to have bumps along the career path.

1:07:36 You really do have that moment. You really do have that moment where you kind of look at yourself in the mirror and say, am I going to continue or do I have to get you know a real job, so to speak? Yeah, obviously you know she has a real job. But there is the path where you say to yourself this is my dream job, this is what I've always wanted to do and this is what I'm always going to do. Or do you say to yourself I need to pay rent next month and that's the way I have to go? That's a real question that a lot of us are sometimes faced with, and I can tell you this as someone who's freelanced in the past. That is something I talked about to myself a lot during my career. Yeah, I think very impressive knowing how to get out of a toxic work relationship right and knowing when to leave and how to get out, because your mental health is important.

1:08:23 Sometimes we have to, you know, search around for the nuggets right In these interviews, you know. But like when I talk to Pam and I hear things like know your strengths and weaknesses, get up and put one foot in front of the other. You know, hustling, finding a way, selling apples, doing what you have to do. I think that's fascinating. And then also luck is when preparedness meets opportunity. She admits she was lucky with a lot of things, but luck, hard work, dedication she's really a fascinating story because we don't talk about the adversity stuff very often, right, but these journeys are hard and they're long and she found a way and that's great.

1:09:05 One thing I also picked up from her was like when she talked about hey, you know, she said a boxing coach who said the idea of always get up right, you know, there are little things that you kind of pick up along the way that you kind of use for inspiration and we didn't talk to her about a mentor, so to speak, but along our journeys we all kind of pick up on things that inspire us and I even have things that I'll even put that to myself and say that, yeah, there were moments in my career path that yeah, there were instances and moments, little things that I can say I really, really relate to her on that, that yes, there were instances and little nuggets here and there that I used to inspire me to go forward as well. So for her journey I think her journey and mine I really relate to a great deal.

1:09:47 You know, and some of the things that stood out to me were one, self-confidence, you know, as we talk about having the faith to hang in there and to keep going and to put yourself into an environment where you could be successful and you could meet the right people. And you knew, you know the talent set that you had, that you could offer to people and to believe in that and to hang in there long enough to make it stood out to me, handled and knew to handle the Hannibal Buress situation, like how did she have the instincts and the street smarts to know to pull him out of that situation when it presented itself?

1:10:30 I just found it very interesting that she seems to have the street smarts, the savvy and the instincts to handle some really complex situations and her story can be applied to a lot of different businesses and professions. Right, you know the get up, just get up. I mean, that is just so brilliant. You can apply that to almost any field and it works. So she's given you tools about how she did it, but they're tools that we can all use in our lives as well. Without question. And again, you know, having seen her journey and having lived part of that with her, you know it's incredibly wonderful for me and it feels good to have had this conversation with Pam today. So with that, pam, thank you.

1:11:11 Thank you so much for joining this episode of no Wrong Choices. We also thank you for joining us. If this conversation made you think of someone who could be a great guest, please let us know by sending us a note via the contact page at NoWrongChoicescom. As I mentioned, off the top season, six premieres next week featuring the lead veterinarian from one of the most famous resorts in the world. That will be followed by fascinating people from Broadway, politics, music and beyond. This is shaping up to be a super interesting season. On behalf of my co-hosts, larry Shea and Tushar Saxena, and me, larry Samuels, thank you again for joining us and never forget there are no wrong choices on the road to success, only opportunities, because we learn from every experience.