May 12, 2025

Heidi Germaine Schnappauf: From NYU Actor to Hollywood Stuntwoman

Heidi Germaine Schnappauf: From NYU Actor to Hollywood Stuntwoman
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Season 6

What kind of person chooses to be set on fire, buried alive, and launched through windows—all in a day’s work?

In this action-packed and deeply personal episode of No Wrong Choices , we meet Heidi Germaine Schnappauf: a fearless stuntwoman, actor, writer, and director whose credits include Blindspot , Birdman , Loki , Hocus Pocus 2 , and Jessica Jones .

Before entering the world of stunts, Heidi trained as an actor at NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts and the Lee Strasberg Theatre & Film Institute—developing a deep understanding of performance that continues to inform her work today.

Heidi takes us behind the scenes of her one-of-a-kind career journey—from directing neighborhood fight scenes as a karate-obsessed kid to training at stunt school, hustling on sets, and coordinating major productions. Along the way, she opens up about the adrenaline, fear, preparation, and vulnerability that come with doing the impossible on screen—and the hard-earned wisdom that comes from building a career few dare to pursue.

Episode Highlights:

  • Discover how a childhood love of martial arts and performance led Heidi into the world of stunts.
  • Learn what it takes to prepare for high-risk scenes, including being buried alive and drowned on screen.
  • Hear how Heidi overcame fear, injury, and self-doubt to thrive in a high-stakes, male-dominated field.
  • Explore the lessons she now shares with the next generation of performers—about courage, resilience, and staying grounded under pressure.

Whether you’re a film buff, a creative soul, or someone navigating a career path that’s anything but ordinary, Heidi’s story delivers the insight and inspiration you didn’t know you needed.


To discover more episodes or connect with us:



00:00 - Childhood Fighting and Karate Dreams

05:42 - School Days: Finding Her Performance Path

11:32 - From NYU to Discovering Stunt Work

20:03 - Breaking Into the Stunt Industry

30:55 - Conquering Fear of Heights

38:46 - Fight Scenes and Tokyo Rooftop Dreams

45:13 - Learning to Fall: Training and Safety

53:27 - Being Buried Alive and Underwater Stunts

01:07:30 - Evolution to Director and Future Plans

01:12:36 - Career Advice and Final Thoughts

WEBVTT

00:00:03.065 --> 00:00:07.134
I saw Karate Kid and immediately was like I can kick his butt.

00:00:07.134 --> 00:00:16.653
I kind of was questioning my life and was faced with the decision of what do I really want to be?

00:00:16.653 --> 00:00:30.826
And I remember watching a behind the scenes of one of the Tomb Raider movies with Angelina Jolie I was obsessed with her, by the way and I saw Angelina Jolie was doing martial arts kicks to a pad to someone that looked like her and I was like, oh, what's that?

00:00:30.826 --> 00:00:32.866
Oh wait, that's a stunt performer.

00:00:32.866 --> 00:00:35.308
And I remember that clicking in my head like oh, that's a job.

00:00:35.308 --> 00:00:39.709
I have a fear of heights.

00:00:39.709 --> 00:00:47.789
We put on a climbing harness, went to this 60-foot tower and we slept on the tower overnight.

00:00:47.789 --> 00:00:50.000
The tower swayed back and forth in the wind.

00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:52.307
So I'm up there and I'm freaking out.

00:00:52.307 --> 00:01:08.109
My all-time favorite, to this day stunt opportunity was going to Japan for several weeks learning a sword fight on a rooftop in Tokyo, overlooking the Tokyo Tower.

00:01:12.801 --> 00:01:16.849
Hello and welcome to the Career Journey podcast No Wrong Choices.

00:01:16.849 --> 00:01:21.468
I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by Tushar Saxena and Larry Shea.

00:01:21.468 --> 00:01:27.001
Today's episode features stuntwoman actor, writer and director, Heidi Schnappauf.

00:01:27.001 --> 00:01:32.022
Before we bring her in, please be sure to like, follow and subscribe to the show wherever you're listening.

00:01:32.022 --> 00:01:33.204
Let's get started.

00:01:33.204 --> 00:01:36.772
Now joining no Wrong Choices is Heidi Schnappauf.

00:01:36.772 --> 00:01:47.843
Heidi has appeared as a stunt performer in countless TV shows and movies, including Blindspot, mare of Easttown and both the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Amazing Spider-Man franchises.

00:01:47.843 --> 00:01:55.549
She has also acted in films such as Hereafter, which was written and directed by one of our favorite previous guests, harry Greenberger.

00:01:55.549 --> 00:01:57.501
Heidi, thank you so much for joining us.

00:01:57.902 --> 00:01:59.325
Hey, glad to be here.

00:01:59.727 --> 00:02:06.421
So that was a mouthful that I just went through, but I can put together a list, but nobody knows the list better than you.

00:02:06.421 --> 00:02:09.287
Was that an accurate description, Heidi?

00:02:09.287 --> 00:02:12.721
How would you describe what you do and who you are?

00:02:13.483 --> 00:02:18.402
Oh geez, I mean it depends on the day, to be honest, because this list is kind of like never ending.

00:02:18.402 --> 00:02:33.104
It's funny, though, because I'm usually introduced first as a stuntwoman, because that's what I've been made to be known for, I suppose, and I feel like that kind of encompasses pretty much everything else that you mentioned, which is kind of interesting.

00:02:33.104 --> 00:02:44.650
Now that I this is, I can't believe this is the first time I'm actually thinking about it, but the whole stunt woman thing combines a lot of acting, sports film, all that kind of stuff, so I'll roll into one.

00:02:49.639 --> 00:02:50.443
Heidi, thank you so much for joining us.

00:02:50.463 --> 00:02:50.724
This is Larry.

00:02:50.724 --> 00:02:50.824
Shea.

00:02:50.844 --> 00:02:51.287
How did this start?

00:02:51.287 --> 00:02:52.170
I mean, what was the dream?

00:02:52.170 --> 00:02:57.270
We always ask what was the dream, but are you dreaming of being a stunt person, or is it something else that catches your fire as a kid?

00:02:57.540 --> 00:03:01.930
But it's funny because I now realize my dream has changed so many times.

00:03:01.930 --> 00:03:08.346
I mean, when I was a kid I didn't realize what I was doing as a kid was being a stunt performer.

00:03:08.346 --> 00:03:16.384
Like I would have friends little like friends in the neighborhood and we would, you know, get together and mainly boys, sometimes like some of the girls, but I like to like roughhouse it.

00:03:16.384 --> 00:03:39.475
I was in karate when I was a kid and I would get all my friends in the neighborhood together and we didn't have a camera but we made up fight scenes and the whole scenario where there's a fight and a shootout and we have like all these like fake guns and like bow and arrows that we made out of sticks and things and I would set up a scene as if we were filming it for a film almost you were directing even as a young kid.

00:03:39.496 --> 00:03:51.264
This is a two shots being there I was definitely bossy and directing all the neighborhood boys and uh, doing like fight scenes when I was like eight or nine didn't even realize it wrestling, and I remember the neighborhood.

00:03:51.264 --> 00:03:56.591
There's like a neighborhood lady who would be like er, stop your roughhousing, and I'm gonna tell your parents.

00:03:56.591 --> 00:03:58.199
And I have like a guy in like a full nelson.

00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:01.006
I'm like it's fine nancy, we're fine.

00:04:02.569 --> 00:04:10.572
As a young kid, there must have been that one, that one movie that turned you on to be, okay, I want to try and do this, I want to get the kids together.

00:04:10.572 --> 00:04:16.209
I always had that one movie that was for me, it was always jaws, jaws was jaws or star wars.

00:04:16.209 --> 00:04:18.742
Those were the two flicks that I loved, my friends and I.

00:04:18.742 --> 00:04:20.206
We would act out scenes from them.

00:04:20.206 --> 00:04:22.011
What was that one movie then for you?

00:04:22.011 --> 00:04:27.690
one movie or show for you as a kid which was like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna put this scene on it's funny because

00:04:27.771 --> 00:04:38.891
I don't know that there was necessarily one movie that I wanted to reenact, but it was like a combination of seeing karate kid when I was a kid that was super influential in both the acting and the martial arts.

00:04:38.891 --> 00:04:43.728
I saw karate kid and immediately was like I can kick his his butt.

00:04:43.728 --> 00:04:45.732
You know I could, I could do that.

00:04:45.732 --> 00:04:47.543
And then there was a I think there was a.

00:04:47.543 --> 00:04:50.050
It was called like three ninjas, a little kid.

00:04:50.129 --> 00:04:56.680
Oh my God, absolutely I remember that, yeah, right, and I think I had maybe already started karate by then, cause I started my brother.

00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:06.050
I have an older brother, who's eight years older, who was a brown belt in a style of karate that very similar to the one that I ended up training most of my life in.

00:05:06.050 --> 00:05:22.548
My brother's pretty much the reason why I'm doing what I'm doing, because he taught me how to play basketball, he taught me karate, he kind of got me into all the sports I ended up doing, which kind of led to the athletic side, because doing stunts in general you're basically a professional athlete.

00:05:22.548 --> 00:05:48.365
You're paid to use your body and perform all sorts of athletic things, including running, jumping, sometimes even sports related, martial arts, driving, stunt driving and so, yeah, my brother got me hooked pretty much and my dad said, all right, you're doing this, we're doing this, and signed me up for karate, and that was majority of my life was in that dojo at Sakura Martial Arts.

00:05:49.086 --> 00:05:51.151
What was school like for you then as a young kid?

00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:55.529
I definitely was one of those kids that kind of got along with everybody.

00:05:55.529 --> 00:05:56.800
I got along with the jocks.

00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:59.408
I got along with the artsy kids because I loved to.

00:05:59.408 --> 00:06:01.000
I would make like fight scenes and things.

00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:05.601
But I had this idea that maybe one of my dreams would be to be an actor.

00:06:05.601 --> 00:06:12.791
I would watch, like Rosie O'Donnell, and pretend when she had her talk show and I would pretend that I was like being interviewed by Rosie O'Donnell as an actor.

00:06:13.314 --> 00:06:15.802
I was very bored in school a lot.

00:06:15.802 --> 00:06:17.206
I got good grades.

00:06:17.206 --> 00:06:22.223
My dad was very much a stickler of getting straight, a Like there was no second place.

00:06:22.223 --> 00:06:24.105
Same thing with my martial arts school.

00:06:24.105 --> 00:06:27.891
There was no second place, it's first place loser, but my dad was just very much.

00:06:27.891 --> 00:06:30.983
So like always, no excuses, however, we need to do it.

00:06:30.983 --> 00:06:34.740
My dad would even help me sometimes that you know, study or whatever.

00:06:35.081 --> 00:06:40.853
I had really hard time reading and but really easy time with math as far as like scholastics go.

00:06:40.853 --> 00:06:46.601
But I realized much later in life that ADHD really is a thing and I was just freaking bored.

00:06:46.601 --> 00:06:48.425
I would arrive late and I wouldn't.

00:06:48.425 --> 00:06:54.271
Really it was more of a penalty to arrive to school late than it was to not show up at all.

00:06:54.271 --> 00:07:06.072
So I would get to school and I'd be late and I'd hide in the band room and the soundproof room with like hide behind a drum set until they would do like homeroom and account people either absent or not for the day and then write music, play music.

00:07:06.072 --> 00:07:14.968
The band director at the time I guess I could say this now won't get him in trouble, but he knew I was there sometimes and he'd be like oh, heidi, again, really You're late.

00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.968
So did you hang out and play music all day, or did you eventually wind up in science class?

00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:21.906
Wrote, played music.

00:07:21.906 --> 00:07:29.776
Second half of the day I would show up to classes whenever I could and I got the assignments and I did them and I wrote the papers and I did all the things.

00:07:29.776 --> 00:07:38.622
I just didn't really show up to class a lot but I was very active in band in both choir band did theater outside of school.

00:07:38.622 --> 00:07:42.290
It kind of leads me to me sneaking into my first audition.

00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:47.526
My dad did not, did not want me to be an actor, but my dad was also a musician, so it's kind of weird.

00:07:47.526 --> 00:07:56.240
He he hated the idea of someone going to school, I guess, to become an actor, thinking like you know, I want something stable, I want you to be a doctor.

00:07:56.259 --> 00:07:57.264
We've heard that before.

00:07:57.605 --> 00:07:58.007
I'm sure.

00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:04.567
Other guests, it's always the father saying, no, you can't earn a living, you can't, you got to be focused and driven.

00:08:04.567 --> 00:08:08.432
And everybody seems to somehow find a way around that.

00:08:08.673 --> 00:08:10.576
I mean ask a doctor now what they make.

00:08:10.576 --> 00:08:14.829
I'm just saying it's not great, it's hard, it's hard to just not.

00:08:14.829 --> 00:08:19.884
Anyway, when I was a kid he was very excited that we had, like, the bunny ears.

00:08:19.884 --> 00:08:21.504
Is that what it's called the rabbit ears?

00:08:21.985 --> 00:08:23.127
Rabbit ears on the TV right.

00:08:23.807 --> 00:08:27.370
Every now and then, like I don't know how, but we got like TLC, the learning channel.

00:08:27.370 --> 00:08:37.321
They had a show called Operation and in Operation they literally would operate on people and it'd be like a warning, like whatever.

00:08:37.321 --> 00:08:40.386
I'm like eight or nine years old watching the show about like a tubal ligation or vasectomy and I had these notebooks.

00:08:40.386 --> 00:08:51.972
My dad was so excited because I had like a regular, like rule, regular rule notebook and I would write on the front of the notebook and a Sharpie tubal ligation, dr Heidi Schnappoff.

00:08:51.972 --> 00:08:57.293
And then I'd take scotch tape and I'd laminate it with scotch tape and writing down all this stuff.

00:08:57.293 --> 00:08:58.881
And I have like complete surgeries.

00:08:58.881 --> 00:09:00.323
I remember for sure.

00:09:00.323 --> 00:09:01.225
I remember three.

00:09:01.225 --> 00:09:03.368
One of them was a laparoscopic hernia repair.

00:09:03.368 --> 00:09:04.870
One of them was a tubal ligation.

00:09:04.870 --> 00:09:05.932
The other was a vasectomy.

00:09:06.273 --> 00:09:15.884
So in high school you're an athlete, you're into martial arts, you're in the music room, you're doing theater, like were you in all the high school productions and stuff like that.

00:09:16.144 --> 00:09:17.889
So my freshman year I did the.

00:09:17.889 --> 00:09:26.422
It was Bye Bye Birdie, and I'm not sure why.

00:09:26.422 --> 00:09:28.826
I just I had a feeling that the musical director had it out for me, and I'm not sure.

00:09:28.826 --> 00:09:35.109
And I hear this story all the time and I'm, you know, I'm 40, 41 years old and I'm still thinking about my high school musical director from my high school play.

00:09:35.109 --> 00:09:37.201
I remember the cast list came out.

00:09:37.201 --> 00:09:37.985
I auditioned, whatever.

00:09:37.985 --> 00:09:45.230
I thought I had a pretty good audition, but I'm a freshman, so, whatever, the bottom of the list there's all the ensemble, ensemble members, and then there are like two extra names in the bottom.

00:09:45.230 --> 00:09:47.894
They're like okay, these two people are in it too, and I was one of the two.

00:09:47.894 --> 00:09:50.245
I'm like, really, I didn't even make it to like the ensemble.

00:09:50.245 --> 00:09:53.702
So I see my name at the bottom of the list and, of course, me being the smartest that I am.

00:09:54.023 --> 00:09:58.913
I, um, I wrote my own part into the play, into Bye Bye Birdie.

00:09:58.913 --> 00:10:03.254
I gave myself lines, um, I became friends with the director.

00:10:03.254 --> 00:10:04.597
May she rest in peace.

00:10:04.597 --> 00:10:09.080
Elaine Bauer and I ended up doing a lot of the straight plays because the musical director wasn't involved.

00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.488
I went into community theater and I ended up like being in.

00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:17.679
I think it was something like 125 plays throughout my high school career.

00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:19.336
I loved being in the ensemble.

00:10:19.336 --> 00:10:27.600
Actually it was one of my favorite things in theater was to contribute in that way and, to you know, create a character don't't steal focus, but still be involved.

00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:42.177
And even to this day, when I go to a Broadway show or something, I'm very intrigued or very interested in seeing the ensemble and how they interact with the leads or the people that you're supposed to kind of pay attention to.

00:10:42.177 --> 00:10:44.812
The high school musical is a combination of all that that you're supposed to kind of pay attention to.

00:10:44.812 --> 00:10:45.960
The high school musical is a combination of all that.

00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:55.668
I don't know if it's like that in most high schools or in your high school, but you know, all the jocks come out and then it's kind of a big melting pot of all the different freaks and geeks in the school.

00:10:56.740 --> 00:10:59.649
So it sounds like the performance stuff came pretty easy.

00:10:59.649 --> 00:11:06.273
Oh yeah, Did you have anxiety or any kind of like performance anxiety or anything that was associated with that?

00:11:06.620 --> 00:11:07.682
That's a really good question.

00:11:07.682 --> 00:11:20.313
And I played Anne Frank in production of the Diary of Anne Frank and I just would get so nauseous I would vomit before every performance because I was so into it.

00:11:20.313 --> 00:11:33.087
But also like the stress of being on stage and realizing that's a lot of you know, it's a lot of pressure because you screw it up especially when you're anne frank and the diary of anne frank you kind of it sure isn't a happy story.

00:11:33.107 --> 00:11:33.929
That's for sure, yeah.

00:11:34.230 --> 00:11:34.812
So how did you?

00:11:34.812 --> 00:11:35.826
How did you deal with it?

00:11:35.826 --> 00:11:37.133
How did you deal with the anxiety?

00:11:37.133 --> 00:11:42.668
Did you face it head on, because obviously we're going to get into the stunt woman and the other stuff.

00:11:42.668 --> 00:11:45.214
I mean, I'm sure there's anxiety that comes with that as well, oh, for sure.

00:11:45.214 --> 00:11:47.926
But how did you face that head on?

00:11:47.926 --> 00:11:49.309
Did you just push through it?

00:11:49.309 --> 00:11:51.525
What did you use in terms of tactics?

00:11:51.700 --> 00:12:09.096
Well, I had a little bit of disordered eating because that was something that I could control and it was something that I'm sure a lot of high school I shouldn't just limit this to high school girls like in high school is when you start noticing things happening to your body.

00:12:09.940 --> 00:12:13.345
So I know that that caused an extra layer of anxiety.

00:12:13.345 --> 00:12:21.495
But I would try to control myself or try to control things in my life in that way or any anxiety I have by what I was eating.

00:12:21.495 --> 00:12:32.410
But as far as practical, practical things that you would probably should do, like breathing and whatever, I just made sure I knew my lines.

00:12:32.410 --> 00:12:47.077
If it was a play just over-rehearsed, I just kind of powered through and dealt with it at the time and I definitely now wish that I had someone to coach through that stuff.

00:12:47.077 --> 00:12:56.046
And that's what I'm trying to do now to the younger people to help them with any anxiety, whether it be, you know, their looks, their performance, anxiety, whatever.

00:12:56.046 --> 00:13:01.168
It's actually a really good question because that's something I didn't learn until much later in life how to deal with.

00:13:01.168 --> 00:13:04.245
I still can't, I mean, I still have issues, but at least I have tools now.

00:13:04.527 --> 00:13:07.696
So what was life like after the high school years?

00:13:07.696 --> 00:13:08.378
What was next?

00:13:08.378 --> 00:13:10.082
Did you continue with community theater?

00:13:10.082 --> 00:13:13.134
Was college the next role, or was it?

00:13:13.134 --> 00:13:17.365
You know, I'm just going to go full bore into the acting world.

00:13:17.586 --> 00:13:19.029
I'm definitely the black sheep of the family.

00:13:19.029 --> 00:13:21.022
I'm like the weird stunt lady.

00:13:21.442 --> 00:13:23.905
You went against your father's wishes and actually acted.

00:13:23.905 --> 00:13:25.207
Everyone else seemed to go into music.

00:13:25.408 --> 00:13:32.302
Yeah, yeah, and my brother was pre-med before he changed over to film film or communications.

00:13:32.804 --> 00:13:34.048
But my dad got my brother to do the med.

00:13:34.067 --> 00:13:34.910
But you're all creative.

00:13:35.071 --> 00:13:35.272
Yeah.

00:13:35.419 --> 00:13:38.250
Yeah, we're all in the creative worlds in some way.

00:13:38.250 --> 00:13:42.565
My brother I look up to immensely because he's just my brother.

00:13:42.565 --> 00:13:45.561
You know, some people are like pretty good at a lot of things.

00:13:45.561 --> 00:13:48.408
My brother's like a jack-of-all-trade master of all.

00:13:48.447 --> 00:13:56.371
He's just so amazing so you went to nyu, you're in new york and you're at one of the best acting schools by reputation.

00:13:56.493 --> 00:14:01.991
Well, first of all, my sat score sucked because I'm bad at testing as, as I've told you, I don't like going to school.

00:14:01.991 --> 00:14:03.484
I was terrible at testing.

00:14:03.484 --> 00:14:05.328
Fine, I, I knew all the information.

00:14:05.328 --> 00:14:07.201
I was very slow, Realized later.

00:14:07.201 --> 00:14:09.389
I just I had, like I had, a learning disability.

00:14:09.389 --> 00:14:11.668
I was dyslexic, which I did know.

00:14:11.668 --> 00:14:15.870
Actually I knew that I was dyslexic and you know ADHD and all this stuff.

00:14:16.940 --> 00:14:24.764
So I applied early decision to NYU because I knew I wanted to go there, but immediately it was just it was just not an option because I did not have the SAT scores.

00:14:24.764 --> 00:14:41.351
So but I got a scout, came to see my senior musical, the Hello Dolly, and I was ermine guard I don't know if you know the show and I made a meal of it because I was like you guys suck, I definitely I'm not.

00:14:41.351 --> 00:14:44.192
I'm not egotistical in any way, but I knew the talent.

00:14:44.192 --> 00:14:49.154
That was at the high school and it was my senior year and I was barely thrown a bone and I was just kind of pissed.

00:14:49.154 --> 00:14:55.337
So I was like you know what, I'm going to dye my hair orange and I'm going to play this part.

00:14:55.337 --> 00:14:56.642
You know what I say?

00:14:56.642 --> 00:14:57.264
I made a meal of it.

00:14:57.264 --> 00:14:59.427
I didn't go beyond what that part?

00:14:59.427 --> 00:15:00.645
That part is pretty annoying.

00:15:00.645 --> 00:15:07.423
She's supposed to whine all the time and I really like leaned into it.

00:15:07.442 --> 00:15:20.423
I'll say that much so somebody came from local college, wilkes University, so he scouted the show and they ended up giving me nearly a free ride and I was like, well, maybe I like this acting teacher, Maybe this is the route to go.

00:15:20.423 --> 00:15:33.182
And as soon as I was at Wilkes for the first year, I was like I am a big fish in a small pond here.

00:15:33.182 --> 00:15:34.004
I need an ocean, I need to see the ocean.

00:15:34.024 --> 00:16:00.965
So I applied to NYU as a transfer student, went to NYU, got into Lee Strasberg Theater Institute for film and television, theater, film and television, and that was my, my primary studio, and then the liberal arts education as well, with NYU so you're working at NYU, you're learning your chops, you're getting degrees that you don't necessarily need, which you know you totally want good for something, I'm sure, real expensive pieces of paper but uh.

00:16:01.225 --> 00:16:03.472
So while I was at NYU I was also working.

00:16:03.472 --> 00:16:08.765
Again, I was like one of the poor kids so I also remember being very hungry a lot.

00:16:08.765 --> 00:16:12.761
But I did have a couple extra odd jobs while I was still in college.

00:16:12.761 --> 00:16:14.125
I was babysitting.

00:16:14.125 --> 00:16:15.688
I eventually worked at a restaurant.

00:16:15.688 --> 00:16:19.807
I don't know when I slept because I worked like really late at night.

00:16:19.807 --> 00:16:21.892
I worked really early in the morning at a gym.

00:16:21.892 --> 00:16:23.865
I went to school, I did projects.

00:16:23.865 --> 00:16:40.881
I did like a ton of like independent student film projects using both the martial arts stuff and even this is before stunts, not even realizing what stunts was or how you know how it would play out in my life in the future.

00:16:40.881 --> 00:16:42.330
But I would do fight scenes.

00:16:42.330 --> 00:16:48.030
I would do driving, because I grew up in Pennsylvania so I was, you know, doing donuts and doing stunt driving without realizing it.

00:16:48.030 --> 00:16:49.100
Was it?

00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:54.812
The New York Film Academy would always post stuff at NYU for the actors to do stuff.

00:16:54.812 --> 00:17:02.102
So I hopped over there and did some New York Film Academy stuff and both acted and did fight scenes and did whatever.

00:17:02.543 --> 00:17:07.724
So at this point you're obviously doing the performance stuff and that's the focus.

00:17:07.724 --> 00:17:14.711
So you're starting to slip in some driving stuff, some falling scenes, fighting scenes and things of that nature.

00:17:14.711 --> 00:17:22.880
Did you ever think at any moment, at this point I can make a career of just this, or were you always going to do both at all times?

00:17:23.121 --> 00:17:28.306
I didn't register that a stunt person or some performer, stunt woman was even a job.

00:17:28.306 --> 00:17:29.308
I was also directing.

00:17:29.308 --> 00:17:33.204
I was directing a lot of theater, directed a show at the Producers Club in Manhattan.

00:17:33.204 --> 00:17:35.289
I loved directing.

00:17:35.289 --> 00:17:43.424
I loved, like I said, bossing around the kids when I was a kid, but I really loved that creative aspect of it and I brought that into my performance side.

00:17:43.424 --> 00:17:52.605
I noticed being on the performance side what went into the direction, if that makes any sense and it also carried over into stunt coordinating down the line.

00:17:52.905 --> 00:18:00.298
I assume you're a method actor which, for people who don't know, is complete immersion into the character for authenticity and things of that.

00:18:00.298 --> 00:18:02.502
Now, you could probably explain it better to better than me I.

00:18:02.502 --> 00:18:06.249
I studied acting, but I did more like externals and things like that.

00:18:06.249 --> 00:18:11.002
So tell people, what about like lee strasburg, like what was that experience like?

00:18:11.222 --> 00:18:15.593
so actually I went to the Lee Strasberg institute as part of my like.

00:18:15.593 --> 00:18:28.951
It was associated with NYU as the uh conservatory, so the conservatory program at NYU Tisch school of the arts, the acting program had when I was there it was Stella Adler Studio, lee Strasberg.

00:18:28.951 --> 00:18:51.301
At the time it was CAP 21, which was the musical theater Playwrights Horizon, which is actually where I kind of wanted to go because I wanted to do more directing but was able to do more performing and acting and directing and musical theater and kind of like dip my toes in a bunch of things and film that was a really big draw to go into Strasberg so.

00:18:51.362 --> 00:18:52.768
I was there, so you're everywhere.

00:18:53.000 --> 00:19:08.380
I mean, like if there was performance anxiety, like you must have beat the hell out of it by this point and that's the good thing about directing too, was I got to do all and same thing with stunts, in a way, stunts, and again we're going to get there very shortly.

00:19:08.380 --> 00:19:09.481
But yeah it.

00:19:09.761 --> 00:19:15.633
It was a way of performing and having a little bit less of that anxiety, because I was.

00:19:15.633 --> 00:19:19.589
It wasn't my face Generally if I was being like a stunt double or something.

00:19:19.589 --> 00:19:22.420
There was a task at hand, like get through the window.

00:19:22.420 --> 00:19:26.371
Like my brain my ADHD brain was doing 25 things at once, which was amazing.

00:19:26.371 --> 00:19:30.530
By the way, being a stunt performer is probably one of the best things for someone who has ADHD.

00:19:30.530 --> 00:19:32.582
Stunt performer.

00:19:32.582 --> 00:19:36.432
It is great if they have ADHD because you can think that's what's happening all the time.

00:19:36.432 --> 00:19:39.842
I currently I didn't take my Adderall today, so I'm thinking about 50 things at once right now.

00:19:40.241 --> 00:19:41.423
But you know, you got to go through the window.

00:19:41.423 --> 00:19:43.746
You have to have your hand protecting your face with a gun.

00:19:43.746 --> 00:19:44.907
Your feet have to know what to do.

00:19:44.907 --> 00:19:46.409
You have to remember how high that ceiling is.

00:19:46.409 --> 00:19:47.590
You have to know where your mat is.

00:19:47.590 --> 00:19:49.333
On the other side You've crashed through this glass.

00:19:49.333 --> 00:19:52.096
You have to make sure that when you land you don't hit somebody else because they're over there.

00:19:52.096 --> 00:19:52.936
There's a camera over there.

00:19:52.936 --> 00:19:59.425
You have to hide your face when you go.

00:19:59.445 --> 00:20:19.607
So it's all these, even though it sounds super stressful to the normal human to me, giving me anxiety just hearing this, and I I realized now that I'm saying it out loud, I'm like oh, this does sound pretty complicated and oh my god, but it gives a a space for all that anxiety to spread out makes sense so what was the first real gig that you had then?

00:20:19.749 --> 00:20:21.701
I mean, you know, obviously you've your time in school.

00:20:21.701 --> 00:20:28.313
It sounds to me like you know not only were you a director, but it sounds like you did some stunt coordinating as well yeah, eventually.

00:20:28.333 --> 00:20:32.277
Yeah, and I didn't even realize I was stunt coordinating in college, but that's a whole other thing.

00:20:32.377 --> 00:20:33.601
I so what was the first real gig?

00:20:34.082 --> 00:20:35.785
so the first real gig.

00:20:35.785 --> 00:20:38.990
So I was training to be an actor, right?

00:20:38.990 --> 00:20:43.967
So I I think the first, uh oh, third watch, third watch it.

00:20:43.967 --> 00:20:48.567
It was like an under five on that and it was like a beaten battered girlfriend.

00:20:50.481 --> 00:20:54.429
They still have that under five right, Just so people know that's under five lines.

00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:55.864
Yeah, that's not a thing anymore.

00:20:55.864 --> 00:20:57.047
It's not a thing anymore.

00:20:57.047 --> 00:20:57.689
It's not really.

00:20:57.689 --> 00:20:58.329
No, not with.

00:20:58.351 --> 00:21:01.924
Sag, I mean, does that mean they don't have to pay you because it's less than five?

00:21:01.984 --> 00:21:02.385
lines.

00:21:02.385 --> 00:21:03.669
It's a certain scale.

00:21:03.669 --> 00:21:04.510
No, it's a tier.

00:21:04.530 --> 00:21:06.013
It's like a tier of-.

00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:07.306
Yeah, that's a good way to say it.

00:21:07.365 --> 00:21:10.549
Yeah, I thought everyone gets their start essentially with the under five.

00:21:10.549 --> 00:21:12.605
I mean, look, was it Law Order.

00:21:12.605 --> 00:21:13.809
I mean famous for that, yeah, actually.

00:21:13.849 --> 00:21:14.250
Law Order.

00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:23.327
That is one of the biggest under five shows because it's usually like someone's, like they, but they talk, so they have to get a contract Right.

00:21:23.327 --> 00:21:24.969
Or not.

00:21:24.969 --> 00:21:27.211
My mom yeah, or something.

00:21:27.491 --> 00:21:31.515
Whatever Easy to remember your lines, at least these pretzels are making me thirsty.

00:21:32.096 --> 00:21:33.696
Nice, that was a great plot.

00:21:37.556 --> 00:21:45.123
Nice, but I would consider my first real gig, the one that I got residuals for Paranormal Activity 2.

00:21:45.144 --> 00:21:51.315
So you go to Tisch, you're doing all this work, you're working with these legendary coaches, and then you start to audition.

00:21:51.315 --> 00:21:55.150
And were you auditioning for acting roles?

00:21:55.150 --> 00:21:58.209
Yes, how did this whole stunt thing happen?

00:21:58.760 --> 00:22:01.128
So I did a bunch, actually a bunch, of theater.

00:22:01.128 --> 00:22:02.806
Still, I was doing some regional theater.

00:22:02.806 --> 00:22:14.111
I even did like a couple of community things like in between, like I'd I'd jump back to Pennsylvania, um for like a month and I would um do a community theater show.

00:22:14.111 --> 00:22:15.421
I did I love you are perfect.

00:22:15.421 --> 00:22:16.565
Now, change was musical.

00:22:17.126 --> 00:22:22.563
I remember auditioning for some national tours I got called back for but never ended up booking.

00:22:22.563 --> 00:22:24.105
One of them was Urinetown.

00:22:24.105 --> 00:22:32.846
I just remember I got called back because I told a really dirty joke and two dirty jokes and another show called East Meets West.

00:22:32.846 --> 00:22:40.980
That I started to actually become one of the developers for this Broadway show and then it got shut down for whatever reason probably money, but it was like a martial arts musical.

00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:42.222
It was like right up my alley.

00:22:42.222 --> 00:22:49.794
But these things just kept getting shut down and I just never really fit into very cleanly a musical theater box.

00:22:49.794 --> 00:22:56.951
I decided very early on into going to NYU that I was not meant to be a Broadway ensemble dancer.

00:22:56.951 --> 00:22:59.702
So stunts came about.

00:22:59.702 --> 00:23:10.249
I was doing Anne Frank and playing Anne Frank in when I was 20, early 20s and she's, you know, 13 in the play.

00:23:10.249 --> 00:23:11.464
But I looked very young.

00:23:11.464 --> 00:23:14.470
I think I look pretty young still you still do, absolutely.

00:23:14.861 --> 00:23:15.845
I don't look like I'm in my 40s.

00:23:15.845 --> 00:23:30.625
So, doing Anne Frank, I had like a life changing thing happen to me where I kind of was questioning my life and was faced with the decision of what do I really want to be?

00:23:30.625 --> 00:23:49.284
And I remember watching a behind the scenes of and this is pivotal moment behind the scenes of one of the Tomb Raider movies with Angelina Jolie I was obsessed with her, by the way and I saw in the behind the scenes Angelina Jolie was doing martial arts kicks to a pad to someone that looked like her and I was like, oh, what's that?

00:23:49.284 --> 00:23:51.346
Oh wait, that's a stunt performer.

00:23:51.346 --> 00:23:53.768
And I remember that clicking in my head like, oh, that's a job.

00:23:53.768 --> 00:23:56.789
It involves acting, it involves being physical.

00:23:56.789 --> 00:24:01.614
It also involves not being the star, which is I don't.

00:24:01.614 --> 00:24:08.700
I never really wanted to be the star, even though I, like I said, I pictured myself like being interviewed for being an actor.

00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:12.809
But the reality of it stressed me the frig out, I don't know.

00:24:12.809 --> 00:24:16.892
It just seemed kind of perfect and I immediately was like how do you become a stunt performer?

00:24:16.892 --> 00:24:17.615
What is a stunt?

00:24:17.615 --> 00:24:18.339
Double Blah, blah, blah.

00:24:18.380 --> 00:24:19.586
I found a stunt school.

00:24:19.586 --> 00:24:33.766
This is like this dirty backwards Florida kind of gross, I don't want to say gross, it was just like just like dirty and raw and I was like that's cool, I want to learn how to jump off this thing and do fights.

00:24:33.766 --> 00:24:37.921
I want to fall, I want to learn all like the basics and like it looked like a pretty comprehensive.

00:24:37.921 --> 00:24:41.686
Although it was kind of like quick and dirty, it was like very comprehensive.

00:24:41.686 --> 00:24:46.434
It looked really safe for for all intents and purposes.

00:24:46.434 --> 00:25:02.546
But it was kahana stunt school and I found that one and I found another one that was in seattle, but, um, this one was cheaper and uh and closer in closer florida, you know it's an easier drive, it in a day or two kind of thing.

00:25:03.107 --> 00:25:05.292
I basically sold everything that I could.

00:25:05.292 --> 00:25:06.384
I eventually did.

00:25:06.384 --> 00:25:07.067
I sold everything.

00:25:07.067 --> 00:25:13.688
I bought this little Toyota Matrix so that I could drive down there and got to stunt school.

00:25:13.688 --> 00:25:22.310
And my teacher he actually just recently passed away, kim Kahana in his 90s but he said you know, you have to pick something.

00:25:22.310 --> 00:25:24.603
You can't just be doing everything all at once.

00:25:24.603 --> 00:25:31.344
He said eventually you can get to it all, but you're never going to truly succeed at something if you can't water.

00:25:31.344 --> 00:25:33.651
You can't water all the plants at once.

00:25:33.651 --> 00:25:35.525
You got to really to make it grow.

00:25:35.525 --> 00:25:37.250
You have to really tend to it, to your garden.

00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:39.186
That was definitely a pivotal moment.

00:25:39.186 --> 00:25:43.847
I was like all right, I'm going to commit myself to this, I'm going to commit myself to this, I'm going to do it.

00:25:43.847 --> 00:25:46.271
And I just put all my energy and focus into stunts.

00:25:46.271 --> 00:25:48.134
And, sure enough, he was absolutely right.

00:25:48.134 --> 00:25:49.861
I honed in on my skills.

00:25:49.881 --> 00:25:55.771
I started watching movies and writing down the names of all the stunt performers that would come in the credits and I'd look them up.

00:25:55.771 --> 00:25:56.953
I'd send letters.

00:25:56.953 --> 00:26:10.219
I sent close to like 500, I think Wow, all said and done like letters and emails and to directors and coordinators and stunt performers like a long list of stunt performers, and like four or five wrote me back.

00:26:10.219 --> 00:26:12.587
Of the four or five, I was like, what do I do?

00:26:12.587 --> 00:26:20.314
So, after going back and forth, I'm still those five people, or four or five people that I reached out to.

00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:22.819
I can think of four off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there might have been another one.

00:26:22.819 --> 00:26:23.784
Anyway, I know who all of them are.

00:26:23.784 --> 00:26:25.770
I can think of four off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there might've been another one.

00:26:25.770 --> 00:26:26.594
Anyway, I know who all of them are.

00:26:26.594 --> 00:26:28.380
I'm still in contact with them, or friends with them.

00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:30.365
One of them has actually become a really close friend.

00:26:30.365 --> 00:26:35.176
And then that web of people you know, they know somebody, and they show you this person, that person, that person.

00:26:35.176 --> 00:26:44.092
So it started at five and then 10 and then, like you know, 50, and then start to when you're committed to something and when you show up, people see that.

00:26:44.092 --> 00:26:50.750
And as long as you're not an idiot and you just show up and you have at least, you have to have like a monogamous skills are implied at this Sure.

00:26:51.230 --> 00:26:51.432
Sure.

00:26:51.432 --> 00:26:53.184
So that's a mantra on this show.

00:26:53.184 --> 00:26:57.969
People can like at least deal with you, like tolerate you for more than, let's say, 15, 20 minutes.

00:26:58.460 --> 00:26:59.942
That's half the battle You're going.

00:26:59.942 --> 00:27:02.085
It's who do you want to hang out with, to be honest?

00:27:02.085 --> 00:27:03.727
Yeah, basically right, that's right, that's it.

00:27:04.186 --> 00:27:10.013
I'm glad you're talking about the various types of stunts, though that you have to learn the basics right.

00:27:10.054 --> 00:27:33.605
You said that a few minutes ago, because what you don't realize about this profession until you dig into an interview like this is there's firework, there's fighting, there's weaponry, there's driving, there's all sorts of different types of stunt work and just from hearing what we've heard so far, a lot of these were threads in your life already the martial arts stuff and the fake fighting when you were a kid and things like that.

00:27:33.605 --> 00:27:34.647
So how do you?

00:27:34.647 --> 00:27:42.492
Obviously you're going to learn the basics, but how do you particularly find what you're good at, what you want to focus on?

00:27:42.492 --> 00:27:49.482
Do you you think that when you're going to school at this point, or is it like I'm just going to do it all and whatever I'm good at I'll start to focus later?

00:27:50.486 --> 00:27:51.407
I went to stunt school, right.

00:27:51.407 --> 00:28:02.209
So you kind of go over all these things and I'm like, oh, actually, because of my martial arts background and because I like to direct, and because of this that the other thing I'm actually very well suited for this direction.

00:28:02.209 --> 00:28:05.595
So I kind of became known as being a fighter.

00:28:05.595 --> 00:28:13.826
Ground pounder is kind of one of the terms that is used for someone who's not afraid to take a fall, which I think all stunt performers should be.

00:28:13.826 --> 00:28:14.930
But that's my own thing.

00:28:15.140 --> 00:28:21.382
A round pounder, ground pounder, so someone that you can just throw around and you don't have to worry about them breaking.

00:28:21.402 --> 00:28:24.131
They're going to fall correctly and that's the thing about Pound them into the ground.

00:28:25.859 --> 00:28:26.000
Exactly.

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.027
But so I'm the thing that's getting pounded, I'm pounding the ground with my body.

00:28:29.027 --> 00:28:35.813
So, like from the time I was, you know, I think I started karate in classes when I was, you know, seven.

00:28:35.813 --> 00:28:42.567
So six or seven I'm already in karate classes by the time I'm 12, I'm teaching adult classes, teen classes, all that kind of stuff getting thrown around.

00:28:42.627 --> 00:28:59.250
So my body I'm, I've been thrown around from the time I was a kid until, you know, into my well, into my twenties, and that became an asset in stunts to know that I'm not fragile, I'm not that breakable you can throw me down.

00:28:59.250 --> 00:29:00.978
And that was like a really good break-in point for me in stunts.

00:29:00.978 --> 00:29:16.170
And that, coupled with the fact that I did martial arts and I could dive, roll over something because that was karate You're always doing like rolls on either side, you're, you know, getting uh just safe ways of break, falling uh, was just an everyday thing for me.

00:29:16.170 --> 00:29:19.563
So that was kind of a really good break in point.

00:29:19.563 --> 00:29:29.913
And then, because I did like track and field, I could run fast, I could play basketball so I could jump and I had very good accuracy because of martial arts, because of basketball, because of this All right.

00:29:30.019 --> 00:29:35.913
So when you go to stunt school, obviously, as your teacher told you, you can't water all the plants at once.

00:29:35.913 --> 00:29:41.561
So there must have been like that one stunt that you kind of honed in on and said you know what I really enjoy this?

00:29:41.561 --> 00:29:45.846
Was it falling, was it holding weapons, was it playing with fire, so to speak?

00:29:45.846 --> 00:29:48.730
What was that one stunt that really kind of connected with you?

00:29:48.930 --> 00:29:51.512
I mean just honestly like fight scenes in general.

00:29:51.512 --> 00:30:01.943
I ended up on a show called Blind Spot and I was on that show for all five seasons.

00:30:01.943 --> 00:30:15.307
I came in about halfway through the first season as a character, the main lady on the show, her lady, the main woman on the show, her stunt double, ended up having an injury that took her out and I became kind of close with her while we were doing that episode and she's like how tall are you?

00:30:15.307 --> 00:30:16.300
And I'm like, why do you ask?

00:30:16.300 --> 00:30:19.728
So by the end of that first season I ended up switching to.

00:30:20.008 --> 00:30:39.057
I kind of phased her out and me into being the stunt double and I was afforded an opportunity, many opportunities, but my all-time favorite to this day stunt opportunity was going to Japan for several weeks learning a sword fight on a rooftop in Tokyo overlooking the Tokyo Tower.

00:30:39.057 --> 00:30:40.925
So I had like two major fight scenes.

00:30:40.925 --> 00:30:44.671
One was with four-on-one me and four guys and then me with a girl with two swords.

00:30:44.671 --> 00:30:46.143
It was incredible.

00:30:46.143 --> 00:30:48.788
To this day nothing could beat it.

00:30:48.788 --> 00:30:52.074
When I left Japan I was like I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and be happy.

00:30:52.279 --> 00:30:55.189
How do you train for that Like is there a choreographer there?

00:30:55.189 --> 00:30:56.291
What's that process?

00:31:05.339 --> 00:31:07.348
TV because it has to be repeatable and it has to be shot from different angles.

00:31:07.348 --> 00:31:15.529
For those of you who don't, who are maybe listening and don't know that, when you shoot a television show, like a Law and Order or Blindspot, every scene you do you shoot it multiple times.

00:31:15.529 --> 00:31:23.060
So anytime you do a fight scene, you have to, it has to be repeatable, has to be something that they can get from different angles.

00:31:23.060 --> 00:31:38.803
And that's where a fight choreographer comes in and we often do now what's called a previs or previsual, where the stunt team will get together and do this choreography and shoot it from what we think the angles should look like, so that when we get to set we're not wasting time shooting angles that don't work or things that might not blend together.

00:31:38.803 --> 00:31:44.530
So the fight choreographer has a really choreographer, has a big role in doing that.

00:31:44.771 --> 00:31:55.286
And in Japan I got there they had all this choreography ready, plugged me into that.

00:31:55.286 --> 00:31:56.630
I did not speak Japanese, they did not speak English.

00:31:56.630 --> 00:31:56.891
This was fun.

00:31:56.891 --> 00:31:57.050
I spoke.

00:31:57.050 --> 00:32:02.307
Luckily, because I studied Japanese martial arts, I was able to kind of communicate with them At least.

00:32:02.307 --> 00:32:13.874
Like I was like oh, front kick, side kick, you know, maegiri, yokogiri, Moshi, so like I knew all like the Japanese terms in fighting, which was actually super awesome because I could at least communicate with them with choreography.

00:32:13.874 --> 00:32:24.306
So they had it all planned out with their stunt team, plugged me into the choreography in a couple of weeks and then the rest of the crew came to Japan, to Tokyo, to film it.

00:32:24.386 --> 00:32:35.491
Let me ask you, though, after stunt school like what I assume you're auditioning for these stunts Like what is that breakthrough, Like holy cow moment of I just got this job?

00:32:35.491 --> 00:32:36.740
I what?

00:32:36.740 --> 00:32:37.583
Was it an audition?

00:32:37.583 --> 00:32:38.726
A recommendation?

00:32:38.726 --> 00:32:40.932
Like how was, what, was that moment for you?

00:32:41.441 --> 00:32:50.724
It's funny because stunts is very much so a by recommendation type of thing you want to work with who you want to hang out with, right.

00:32:50.724 --> 00:32:53.041
So you don't know that until you get to know the person.

00:32:53.041 --> 00:32:56.455
So the first thing I did was find out all these stunt people.

00:32:56.455 --> 00:33:05.471
And then the people that did get back to me, like I was saying, they kind of told me what to do, which was a thing called hustling, where it's a little different protocol these days.

00:33:05.859 --> 00:33:15.665
But back in the day you'd go to a set, you'd find the stunt coordinator, you'd wait patiently on the side, like if they're shooting, like in a downtown area or if they're shooting in a public place, you'd never really want to break into a studio.

00:33:15.665 --> 00:33:20.784
That's not really good form, unless you're working on another project and you can scoot over, but that's kind of like later in your career.

00:33:20.784 --> 00:33:32.615
So you'd find the stunt coordinator, you'd have your resume and you'd wait until they were like you know whatever, and then you say, excuse me, mr, so-and-so I just I hope I'm not interrupting, I just wanted to introduce myself.

00:33:32.615 --> 00:33:39.244
And you know you get your face out there enough and they see that you're committed to the year around.

00:33:39.244 --> 00:33:39.986
All right, tell me about this girl.

00:33:39.986 --> 00:33:41.430
You train with this girl, is she okay?

00:33:41.430 --> 00:33:44.516
So that's how you get hired in stunts, or how you used to anyway.

00:33:45.057 --> 00:33:47.904
And then you get an opportunity grab that mat over there.

00:33:47.904 --> 00:33:49.590
You got it, sir, can I help you with anything else?

00:33:49.590 --> 00:33:53.509
And I carry pads and mats and build boxes for box catches.

00:33:53.509 --> 00:33:58.049
And I remember hustling a set once and they were building box catches and I was like, can I help you guys out?

00:33:58.049 --> 00:33:59.173
And they're like, yeah, grab some boxes.

00:34:02.865 --> 00:34:21.637
So basically you build boxes like empty boxes, you fold them up like into their shape and then layer them in a specific way so that you can do a high fall or a fall into the boxes as opposed to an airbag and you've probably seen movies or maybe behind the scenes of like people jumping into these big pillowy things.

00:34:21.637 --> 00:34:24.273
Well, box catches are used.

00:34:24.273 --> 00:34:35.157
I prefer a box catch actually to an airbag, because airbags you can bounce out of and it's kind of weird and they actually feel like cement sometimes, depending on how high you are and how stiff and full the bag is.

00:34:35.157 --> 00:34:36.929
Anyway, there is a very nuanced thing.

00:34:36.929 --> 00:34:38.215
High falls, that's a whole other thing.

00:34:38.215 --> 00:34:40.110
So box catches would be.

00:34:40.110 --> 00:34:41.755
You know, you're jumping off of something.

00:34:41.755 --> 00:34:46.615
You're not really exactly sure where the landing is going to be, so it's a great way to land safely.

00:34:46.615 --> 00:34:48.286
Or they do it for vehicles as well.

00:34:48.286 --> 00:34:53.188
Sometimes they'll have a cargo maybe off of a ramp into like layers and layers and layers of boxes to catch it.

00:34:53.188 --> 00:35:00.391
My first time into a box catch I was like great, I feel great.

00:35:00.411 --> 00:35:00.411
I would be like.

00:35:00.411 --> 00:35:00.411
.

00:35:00.411 --> 00:35:00.411
.

00:35:00.411 --> 00:35:01.574
Fuck, how do I get out of here?

00:35:02.454 --> 00:35:05.360
Do you remember the first time you fell like that?

00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:07.829
I mean in a show, in a movie.

00:35:07.829 --> 00:35:12.018
What are those emotions when you're finally taking that leap?

00:35:12.405 --> 00:35:23.880
Let me just I know I'm not going to get into like a deep story here, but in stunt school when we first do high falls, you fall into a like almost like a pad, a resi pad.

00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:28.648
Like almost like a pad, a resi pad.

00:35:28.648 --> 00:35:35.047
So think of like a big gymnastics like foam pad off of a kind of a low, a lower like up not even 10 feet, maybe eight to 10 feet Like, if you think about it, your ceiling is eight feet.

00:35:35.047 --> 00:35:37.514
Jumping up doesn't feel like it's too high.

00:35:37.514 --> 00:35:44.489
Putting your feet on something eight feet high and looking down is actually kind of terrifying if you're not used to the height, I guess.

00:35:44.489 --> 00:35:48.239
Or even just like looking over a balcony over a second story, that's only 10 feet.

00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:50.346
But when you're standing up there you're like, oh, I don't want to fall.

00:35:50.346 --> 00:35:51.969
You know you get a little a lot of people.

00:35:52.010 --> 00:35:55.478
Anyway, I have a fear of heights.

00:35:55.478 --> 00:36:03.920
I didn't realize until I went to stunt school and standing at the 10 foot mark, I was like, all right, I'll get over this.

00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:04.400
And I did.

00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:08.981
I got, went into the pad and I just kind of like talked myself into it get up to the 20 feet.

00:36:08.981 --> 00:36:10.242
They had a small airbag.

00:36:10.242 --> 00:36:12.603
Airbag has a running fan through it.

00:36:12.603 --> 00:36:29.257
Think of like a bouncy house kind of situation with a fan that runs in, except this has flaps on the side so it absorbs when you hit the bag, otherwise you'd bounce out or you'd like a bouncy house, you'd bounce out so these flaps open up and you have to know like, okay, okay, I'm going from this height, I'm this much weight, I want the flaps to be open a little bit more.

00:36:29.297 --> 00:36:31.260
So you open more tabs, the whole thing.

00:36:31.260 --> 00:36:36.356
So I realized I was terrified and you learn how to fall on the bag certain ways.

00:36:36.356 --> 00:36:42.826
There's a thing called a suicide, which is, strangely enough, like the safest, the easiest one to teach people, and they call it a suicide.

00:36:42.826 --> 00:36:44.610
A header is headfirst.

00:36:44.610 --> 00:36:46.994
We always land the same way Always land on your back.

00:36:46.994 --> 00:36:53.335
Whether it's that or face off is where you start to go in face first, and then you turn your body and you end up landing on your back last minute.

00:36:53.985 --> 00:36:57.391
So you learn all this kind of stuff like on a trampoline, so you know how your body moves in the air.

00:36:57.391 --> 00:37:01.329
So then we learned to do it into an airbag or into a box.

00:37:01.329 --> 00:37:03.931
So you're talking about my first time doing.

00:37:03.931 --> 00:37:05.635
It was at stunt school.

00:37:05.635 --> 00:37:10.740
Thankfully, one of the instructors I was talking to I'm like, dude, I can't.

00:37:10.740 --> 00:37:17.918
I climbed up to the third story on the day that we were one of the first days we were doing high falls and I was like can't do it, can't do it.

00:37:17.918 --> 00:37:20.112
I know I'll be fine, but I just can't do it.

00:37:20.112 --> 00:37:29.940
So what he did was we put on a climbing harness, went to the 60-foot tower and we slept on the tower overnight.

00:37:30.586 --> 00:37:31.070
Oh, my God.

00:37:32.264 --> 00:37:37.677
And there was about, I want to say maybe six by six foot.

00:37:37.677 --> 00:37:55.496
The top of it was very small and there were two of us up there Tied off Like I was very, very safe, but the tower swayed back and forth oh my god in the wind, so I'm up there and I'm freaking out, but I was like, no, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do stunts.

00:37:55.496 --> 00:38:07.293
I, I trusted him, I trusted the fact that I was I don't trust anybody that much um I mean get over your fear of heights quickly, I guess I honest to god, I I shit you not.

00:38:07.333 --> 00:38:10.358
I woke up at the top of the 60-foot tower in the morning.

00:38:10.358 --> 00:38:17.253
I looked over the edge and I was like okay, and I went down, went back down to that 30-foot thing that I was freaking out about.

00:38:17.253 --> 00:38:24.556
I was like nothing, this is fine, but I remember that was like breaking the horse in that night.

00:38:25.257 --> 00:38:26.572
Yeah, it's so funny, funny.

00:38:26.572 --> 00:38:38.235
We have so many of these interviews where, like you can't have a bad day at the office, like bad things are going to happen, right, but let's get back to that breakthrough moment real quick, because I want to know what that first.

00:38:38.235 --> 00:38:42.498
Like someone's going to pay me to do all this stuff that I just learned how to do.

00:38:42.498 --> 00:38:44.005
What was that moment?

00:38:44.005 --> 00:38:44.927
What was that thing?

00:38:45.608 --> 00:38:53.797
well, aside from paranormal activity too, like I said, was the first kind of major movie residual stuff, like it was just uh, some tackling.

00:38:53.797 --> 00:38:58.833
There's some like basic kind of movement things and fight things.

00:38:58.833 --> 00:39:02.907
But I'm trying to think of, like what the first high fall I did?

00:39:02.907 --> 00:39:03.869
I did a bunch.

00:39:03.869 --> 00:39:06.175
I did a bunch of high falls I did some into.

00:39:06.175 --> 00:39:14.059
I did one on uh, on jessica jones okay, now these are just phone calls that are happening to you.

00:39:14.059 --> 00:39:26.605
You go, you introduce yourself, you put your face in front of them, you you hand the resume, and then what a random phone call so then, and then it goes to those like carrying the mats and building the boxes and, um, you get a shot.

00:39:26.786 --> 00:39:42.079
And I think one of the first shots on television that I got was on a show where the character was barbed wired to a ceiling, face down and she was dead and hanging out up there in a harness, like you don't realize, like how hard that is because all the blood's rushing to the front side of your body.

00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:43.246
You can't have an actor do that.

00:39:43.246 --> 00:39:46.673
Um, I mean you could, but it would be very, very difficult.

00:39:46.673 --> 00:39:47.376
They wouldn't like it.

00:39:47.376 --> 00:39:48.418
They wouldn't like it no.

00:39:49.487 --> 00:39:51.514
So it was like a little bit of acting Exactly.

00:39:52.164 --> 00:40:00.010
So you know, just being in a harness for that long, that was probably one of my first stunts and one of my first big, major things, and I know you're talking breakthrough moments.

00:40:00.010 --> 00:40:06.996
And it's funny because I feel like I was just sort of cracking the surface little by little and just chipping away until I was given that shot.

00:40:06.996 --> 00:40:09.878
You know, you gotta earn it, you know.

00:40:09.878 --> 00:40:11.077
So I started off small.

00:40:11.077 --> 00:40:12.179
I started off actually.

00:40:12.179 --> 00:40:17.161
I remember hustling a set once and the coordinator was like you ever been in a harness?

00:40:17.161 --> 00:40:23.137
And I was like totally lying, yeah, totally, he's like you, afraid to be upside down.

00:40:23.137 --> 00:40:28.686
I was like, nope, he's like all right, the stand-in.

00:40:28.706 --> 00:40:30.873
We were to put the stand in in a harness, but she's scared, so we'll put you in a harness.

00:40:30.873 --> 00:40:33.574
We're going to hang you upside down in this car so they can set up this next shot.

00:40:33.574 --> 00:40:36.184
And he was testing me, totally testing me.

00:40:36.184 --> 00:40:37.887
I was just hustling, I wasn't working.

00:40:37.887 --> 00:40:45.938
There was no reason that the production should have allowed someone who was not working to be in a harness in a car upside down while they set up a shot.

00:40:45.938 --> 00:40:57.693
But I remember that that was a test for me and there were pieces of glass like tempered glass, which is great to break through because it breaks into a million pieces, so you don't get like shards of glass doing glass work.

00:40:57.693 --> 00:41:06.072
I don't know if you know that, but also they had a lot of fake glass around, but there were still some pieces of tempered glass from this windshield that broke.

00:41:10.824 --> 00:41:12.833
I remember climbing into the car and as I climbed in a piece of glass, sliced my hand off.

00:41:12.833 --> 00:41:13.355
I started bleeding.

00:41:13.355 --> 00:41:13.817
Oh wow, son of a bitch.

00:41:13.817 --> 00:41:15.302
I'm like I'm trying to impress this guy.

00:41:15.302 --> 00:41:20.474
I'm trying to hide the fact that I have this gash in my hand from this glass, just like crawling into the car.

00:41:21.478 --> 00:41:32.039
Um put the harness on and I remember one of the it was either the stunt person or it might've even been the coordinator at the time who was like if you feel like you're going to pass out, it's too late.

00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:35.793
And I was like, oh okay, he's like have you been upside down before?

00:41:35.793 --> 00:41:36.596
I was like, yeah, he's like.

00:41:36.596 --> 00:41:39.628
Well, so you know that if you start seeing stars, it's too late.

00:41:39.628 --> 00:41:43.652
So when you feel like it might be getting close, let me know.

00:41:43.652 --> 00:41:48.057
And I was like shit, I don't want to be a wuss and say too early, I don't want to, you know.

00:41:48.057 --> 00:41:49.760
So that was a huge test.

00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:53.730
I ended up working for that coordinator down the line, and he was.

00:41:53.730 --> 00:41:57.378
He ended up being my one of my huge major mentors.

00:41:57.378 --> 00:42:03.293
His name is Norm Howell and I don't think he even knows that I cut my hand that day, so I didn't tell anybody.

00:42:03.914 --> 00:42:04.775
Did you see stars?

00:42:05.576 --> 00:42:08.900
I was fine during most of them.

00:42:08.900 --> 00:42:14.809
The very, very last setup that I was up there, I was like I'm going to okay, I saw them coming over.

00:42:14.809 --> 00:42:15.431
I'm like, okay, we're good.

00:42:15.431 --> 00:42:19.233
But talking about that, the job where I was face down.

00:42:19.655 --> 00:42:19.876
Yeah.

00:42:20.164 --> 00:42:26.606
Definitely, when the person came, it was supposed to be tested it out and we did 30 minutes.

00:42:26.606 --> 00:42:31.289
And that's when I started to feel things go numb in the test for that one.

00:42:31.289 --> 00:42:35.072
And then he was like, all right, so if we needed to go to 45 minutes we could.

00:42:35.072 --> 00:42:37.474
I was like, yeah, definitely, like I'll be numb but I'll be fine.

00:42:38.614 --> 00:42:46.719
Two and a half hours later, on the day that we shot it, I recalled I remembered Norm Howell saying if you see stars, it's too late, right.

00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:54.525
So I'm up there and I had like this like gash in my head of somebody carved in this like demonic thing into my head, right, right, right.

00:42:54.525 --> 00:42:58.824
And in the scene like they wanted to put a blood tube so that it would like drip onto the camera.

00:42:58.824 --> 00:43:02.956
So the last shot was the makeup person came up to put this tube in.

00:43:02.956 --> 00:43:05.373
So it looked like the blood was dripping down onto the camera.

00:43:05.373 --> 00:43:13.748
And she came up and I said, hey, can you just tell valerie?

00:43:13.768 --> 00:43:16.313
Valerie was one of the stunt girl, the stunt girl that was on the side.

00:43:16.313 --> 00:43:19.925
I was like, can you tell valerie I'm starting to see stars and she go and I'm going to pass out soon.

00:43:19.925 --> 00:43:25.994
And the makeup girl I remember she's like looking up at me and she's like, um, okay.

00:43:25.994 --> 00:43:27.376
And they're like, okay, let's go.

00:43:27.376 --> 00:43:33.753
And she's like, uh, uh, like now she has this responsibility and she doesn't know what she should do.

00:43:33.753 --> 00:43:35.239
To tell who to tell?

00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:39.251
And I I realized now that was probably not a good idea did she save you?

00:43:40.896 --> 00:43:42.601
uh, she just backed away.

00:43:42.601 --> 00:43:45.329
They did the shot and I, I think I I'm not.

00:43:45.731 --> 00:44:07.193
I'm a little unclear as to what happened after this, because I did pass out, but she went around and I remember, as they were lowering me, the second, the, the like, because it was I was on, um, there was like a crane thingy that was holding me through the ceiling, so there was this wires holding me, and then there's wires up in the ceiling sucking me to it, and then the barbed wire thing on me.

00:44:07.193 --> 00:44:09.889
So then they started lowering me down.

00:44:09.889 --> 00:44:11.795
And as I'm lowering down, all I was thinking was, oh, bye-bye.

00:44:11.795 --> 00:44:17.213
And I woke up and Valerie was there and she's like you're okay, you're okay, I covered for you.

00:44:17.213 --> 00:44:19.391
So pulled me aside.

00:44:19.391 --> 00:44:21.771
I had oxygen, I had to put oxygen on.

00:44:21.771 --> 00:44:34.777
They asked me like who the president was, where I lived, and I was like I live in a house with bricks and they're like oh, put the oxygen on.

00:44:34.797 --> 00:44:35.460
They put the oxygen on my head.

00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:38.048
Close enough, let it go 20 minutes later, they're like okay, where do you live?

00:44:38.048 --> 00:44:39.532
And I was like kingston, pennsylvania.

00:44:39.532 --> 00:44:41.086
My family's from there and I live in new york.

00:44:41.086 --> 00:44:42.431
And they're like who's the president?

00:44:42.431 --> 00:44:47.391
And I remember being like obama and they're like okay, you're good and your takeaway was I want to do this again.

00:44:47.391 --> 00:44:56.789
I was like this is awesome, and now I know it's true if you start to see stars, it's too late all right.

00:44:56.829 --> 00:45:04.155
So you've done all this work now as a essentially as an individual of hustling, hustling gigs, hustling on sets, hustling, getting that gig.

00:45:04.155 --> 00:45:06.059
So you've built a career.

00:45:06.059 --> 00:45:12.353
At this point You've gone from being essentially a student to now becoming a real teacher.

00:45:12.353 --> 00:45:14.947
So what was that first stunt coordinating gig for you?

00:45:14.947 --> 00:45:17.494
Because obviously you said you've gone on to stunt coordinating.

00:45:17.494 --> 00:45:20.893
I have a whole bunch of other questions I kind of want to build off of that.

00:45:20.893 --> 00:45:23.847
But what was the first time you were being a stunt coordinator?

00:45:24.528 --> 00:45:29.719
So actual paid for a show of my own.

00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:31.210
So I did Blindspot.

00:45:31.210 --> 00:45:43.855
On Blindspot there was a unit production manager who really believed in me because as a stunt performer, you're working with set designers, you're working with construction because you're going to need them to build something for you to complete the stunt.

00:45:43.855 --> 00:45:47.327
You're going to need to talk to wardrobe because you're going to need to cut holes in things to put wire.

00:45:47.327 --> 00:45:52.867
So being a stunt coordinator is more than just coordinating the stunt.

00:45:52.867 --> 00:45:58.079
It is being able to have open dialogue and talk to the other crew members.

00:45:59.041 --> 00:46:06.585
So she really had faith in me and she did this show called At Home with Amy Sedaris and she gave me this opportunity.

00:46:06.606 --> 00:46:08.070
She's like look, I'll hold your hand through it.

00:46:08.070 --> 00:46:15.266
I know you've never really done the meetings and all this stuff and I was like, well, I just got to get the okay from the other coordinators in New York to like get their blessing.

00:46:15.266 --> 00:46:18.315
So I was in New York at the time, back in New York from LA.

00:46:18.315 --> 00:46:33.135
So I started in LA, ended up back in New York, be closer to family and started my blind spot career there, basically to family, and started my blind spot career there, basically and, uh, got the blessing from other coordinators that I.

00:46:33.135 --> 00:46:36.447
I set up lunch meetings with them so that I was like, hey, I really want to take this job.

00:46:36.447 --> 00:46:40.876
You know, do you think I can do it and can I maybe ask you questions along the way?

00:46:40.876 --> 00:46:45.996
So had this really good backup references or people that I could call if I needed to.

00:46:45.996 --> 00:46:51.231
So that show it was a sketch show, kind of like a Saturday Night Live type sketches.

00:46:51.612 --> 00:46:52.275
The Sedaris show.

00:46:52.275 --> 00:46:53.590
Yeah, it was a sketch comedy show.

00:46:53.590 --> 00:46:54.152
I remember that, yeah.

00:46:55.106 --> 00:46:58.836
So it was a great first show to do too, because it was a lot of fun.

00:46:58.836 --> 00:47:00.731
Amy Sedaris was so much fun.

00:47:00.731 --> 00:47:11.695
I think I ended up spending more money than I made on that show because I would be like I just want to make sure my performers that I hire are safe and the production did not have a big budget like they would have major like.

00:47:11.695 --> 00:47:18.047
Uh, rose Byrne came in like there are so many amazing actors and they were working on these like $200 contracts, you know.

00:47:18.047 --> 00:47:20.333
So, like it wasn't, nobody did this show for the money.

00:47:20.333 --> 00:47:23.469
However, it was one of the most educational.

00:47:23.469 --> 00:47:24.731
I did three seasons.

00:47:24.731 --> 00:47:36.485
I was probably one of the only crew members in general that lasted all three seasons, um, but learned so much, um, and got to coordinate some really cool fun things.

00:47:36.485 --> 00:47:39.472
Like amy sedaris in one of the scenes runs onto.

00:47:39.472 --> 00:47:49.291
It was in a meat freezer and there's like a life-size whole ham or cow or something in this meat freezer and she wanted to run and grab onto it and slide.

00:47:49.291 --> 00:47:52.275
You know like how they have like in butcher shops.

00:47:52.355 --> 00:47:55.318
I guess In the meat freezer in a butchery Butchery.

00:47:55.318 --> 00:47:57.820
I don't know, is that what you call it, butcher Butcher?

00:47:57.840 --> 00:47:58.039
shop.

00:47:58.039 --> 00:47:58.701
I don't know.

00:47:58.701 --> 00:47:59.601
I think it's the butcher.

00:47:59.722 --> 00:48:00.061
Butcher.

00:48:00.061 --> 00:48:04.851
All right, she was like I want to run and I want to jump on a big slab of meat and slide across.

00:48:04.851 --> 00:48:05.833
I was like, all right, let's do it.

00:48:05.833 --> 00:48:08.978
So you know, fun stuff like that.

00:48:08.978 --> 00:48:13.614
And she had to do a stair fall, she had to be in a jazzy and crash into, you know, an armoire.

00:48:13.614 --> 00:48:14.456
It was fun stuff.

00:48:15.266 --> 00:48:18.155
I want to ask you about your proudest moment on set.

00:48:18.155 --> 00:48:22.215
I'm sure it's not jumping onto a big meat slab and sliding across the room.

00:48:22.675 --> 00:48:24.056
That sounds like fun, though I gotta admit.

00:48:24.677 --> 00:48:33.927
Do you have like a moment where you're like maybe even the stunt was intimidating and you're like I think I can do this, and then you pull it off and you were just like whoa.

00:48:33.927 --> 00:48:38.574
An amazing, proud moment like that I feel like or favorite moment.

00:48:39.626 --> 00:48:42.554
Honestly, in Japan just getting through that was-.

00:48:42.755 --> 00:48:43.155
That's right.

00:48:43.425 --> 00:48:48.958
So I was very proud of myself for just surviving.

00:48:48.958 --> 00:49:02.293
No, I was actually so gifted, I was so lucky and so grateful, and so it was such a gift is what I'm trying to say to have had the people, um, that I had in every step of the way.

00:49:02.293 --> 00:49:05.085
Now I'm talking about, like any stunt I've ever done, it's never.

00:49:05.085 --> 00:49:05.748
You're never alone.

00:49:05.748 --> 00:49:07.233
You're always relying on other people.

00:49:07.934 --> 00:49:12.413
Right, I read it was like 90% talking and planning and 10% doing.

00:49:12.713 --> 00:49:14.215
Yeah, maybe even less yeah.

00:49:14.797 --> 00:49:15.498
Okay, yeah.

00:49:16.065 --> 00:49:17.391
And people they go, oh, it's such a cool job.

00:49:17.391 --> 00:49:20.514
I'm like, yeah, the 3% you see is like the cool stuff.

00:49:20.514 --> 00:49:24.697
But that other 97% is the training, is the training, is the setup, is the.

00:49:24.717 --> 00:49:28.159
This is the talking is the other people like the people that build the boxes.

00:49:28.219 --> 00:49:33.561
You know, and I'm there the day that I'm doing a high fall, I'm building boxes too, until I have to go prep or do whatever I'm doing.

00:49:33.561 --> 00:49:44.268
Um, jessica jones, like when I broke my neck, I had a pretty bad neck injury from a high fall into boxes actually, but it had nothing to do with the setup, had nothing to do with the people, was just a very unforeseen.

00:49:44.268 --> 00:49:48.215
But that is actually one of my most proud moments because I rehearsed.

00:49:48.215 --> 00:49:50.838
I went and, knowing the stunt, went to my friend's house.

00:49:50.838 --> 00:49:51.760
We blew up the airbag.

00:49:52.045 --> 00:50:04.806
I kind of got a rough estimate about how high I was going to be, because the stunt was jumping over a balcony into the bank and I knew I had to do a face-off, so it had to look like she was going to land on her feet.

00:50:04.806 --> 00:50:09.518
But then the last second I turned over and landed on my back into boxes.

00:50:09.518 --> 00:50:15.054
So I practiced this on my friend's rooftop enough so that I felt super confident when I got there.

00:50:15.054 --> 00:50:23.632
And we get there, they're like oh, we have to jump on this bench and then a banister that's like the size of half of the width of your foot and then do the high fall over the thing.

00:50:23.632 --> 00:50:30.489
But because I had been super diligent and practicing, I was super confident in the stunt itself.

00:50:30.528 --> 00:50:33.115
So, like, adding on those two extra elements were fine.

00:50:33.115 --> 00:50:37.545
It wasn't like I was showing up and I had to do the jump and the leap and the this and then figure out where I'm going to go.

00:50:37.545 --> 00:50:41.655
And you know, I already had that stuff planned out and as best as I could.

00:50:41.655 --> 00:50:48.835
People think that sometimes they're like oh, you know, know, you're really over-preparing.

00:50:48.835 --> 00:50:57.072
I'm like that is kind of a what is over-preparing when it's not for a job like this when you're talking about not trying to break your neck.

00:50:57.152 --> 00:50:58.666
Yeah, over-prepare, yeah.

00:50:59.067 --> 00:51:09.666
So when I landed, it was just an unforeseen stiffener in the boxes, like the upright of the box had a thing in it that nobody knew was there and it caught my shoulder blades.

00:51:09.666 --> 00:51:16.547
And I was going at such a high height that when I hit it it slid from my shoulder blades and got stuck on my neck.

00:51:16.547 --> 00:51:24.706
And this is where that martial arts background comes into play too, where I, every time you fall, as a martial artist, you want your chin to go slightly to the side, because you don't want to.

00:51:24.706 --> 00:51:32.990
If your chin were to go straight to your chest, in theory you could snap your spinal cord, but if you're off to the side, at least you have a chance, chance or shot.

00:51:32.990 --> 00:51:35.856
I said shot, that's weird, a shot.

00:51:35.856 --> 00:51:36.759
Chance.

00:51:37.425 --> 00:51:38.206
let's go with shot.

00:51:38.206 --> 00:51:41.530
That sort of fits the theme, I think, for today.

00:51:41.530 --> 00:51:44.414
Can you tell us what your scariest moment was?

00:51:45.295 --> 00:51:57.467
I don't know what that would be, because I feel like they're all kind of scary in their own way, um, and also I don't think I would do something if I was truly, genuinely scared.

00:51:57.467 --> 00:52:04.063
However, oh, I actually know, I, um, I have, I'm terrified of drowning.

00:52:04.063 --> 00:52:10.717
I drowned when I was 12 and I had to get like resuscuscitated from a lake because it was dark and I couldn't see.

00:52:10.717 --> 00:52:22.496
I dove really deep in a lake and I couldn't figure out which way was up and I finally, like, let a bubble go and I figured out, but by the time I got to the top, I had inhaled water and there was like a fish head with a scale like you see in, you know, cartoons.

00:52:22.757 --> 00:52:23.418
Oh, my goodness.

00:52:23.557 --> 00:52:23.878
Terrifying.

00:52:23.878 --> 00:52:26.719
After that I and, oh my goodness, terrifying, uh, after that I and I used to be like a water bug.

00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:32.242
I used to be in the water all the time but uh, I, I had to get drowned.

00:52:32.242 --> 00:52:33.702
I had to get, was it?

00:52:33.702 --> 00:52:37.742
Yeah, I had to get drowned on blind spot and the guy had to shove my head into water.

00:52:37.742 --> 00:52:39.463
It was terrifying and every night.

00:52:39.523 --> 00:52:45.965
But leading up to that stunt, I actually started off by putting my face just in in a bowl of water in my sink.

00:52:45.965 --> 00:52:53.753
I filled it with water and put my face in and then I went in the bathtub and did it and I held my breath and then I tried to get myself to breathe a little bit of water to see what it felt like.

00:52:53.753 --> 00:52:54.936
So that I was doing.

00:52:54.936 --> 00:53:02.179
I did like everything I could possibly do to alleviate what like the initial shock onset.

00:53:02.179 --> 00:53:08.112
Like when I trained martial arts, they train you getting choked so that you know what it feels like and you get over that initial.

00:53:08.112 --> 00:53:13.981
You know your central nervous system like freaking out, your parent sympathetic nervous system like freaking out.

00:53:13.981 --> 00:53:20.675
So I did that like for the weeks leading up to it and I still had a little bit of a panic moment on set and it was just terrifying.

00:53:20.675 --> 00:53:26.086
But I thank the Lord I did the prep work for that because I would have that and getting buried alive.

00:53:26.086 --> 00:53:29.291
Actually I had to be put in a box in the ground.

00:53:29.811 --> 00:53:31.233
It's called being human, oh my.

00:53:31.273 --> 00:53:31.635
God.

00:53:31.635 --> 00:53:35.340
So let's see, I trained by waterboarding myself.

00:53:40.405 --> 00:53:41.728
I did, I did, I trained myself.

00:53:41.728 --> 00:53:43.795
Actually, waterboarding was one of the things and Jamie was like I got this.

00:53:43.815 --> 00:53:46.784
I'm like are you sure, Because they put the towel over her face, yeah, the towel over you, right.

00:53:47.485 --> 00:53:51.936
And she was like I literally drowned like, yes, because that's what happens when you put a wet towel over your face and pour water on you.

00:53:51.936 --> 00:53:52.666
You drown.

00:53:52.686 --> 00:53:56.916
That's the whole thing yeah, can we go back to buried alive for a second?

00:53:56.956 --> 00:53:59.025
yeah, what happened there?

00:53:59.025 --> 00:54:05.155
Um so I in the storyline they put her in a coffin.

00:54:05.195 --> 00:54:06.016
In a wooden coffin.

00:54:06.016 --> 00:54:07.378
Which show is this or which movie is this?

00:54:07.378 --> 00:54:07.960
Blind Spot, okay Blind.

00:54:07.980 --> 00:54:12.052
Spot and I knew it was coming and so I prepped myself for that too.

00:54:12.052 --> 00:54:23.137
Like mentally I used to have like so afraid of heights and claustrophobic, so bunk beds were like out for me when I was a kid and I just remember being like okay, I need to like breathe.

00:54:23.137 --> 00:54:30.996
And I went through this whole like breathing.

00:54:30.996 --> 00:54:31.670
I knew I was going to be in a box, so it was like a pine box.

00:54:31.670 --> 00:54:33.976
I had to lay in the box and I knew that he was going to close the box and throw dirt on me six feet in the ground and that was like a real thing.

00:54:33.976 --> 00:54:34.414
That was happening.

00:54:34.367 --> 00:54:38.045
Oh my god and they had the medic there and they had everybody and they had everyone ready to like because.

00:54:38.045 --> 00:54:44.496
And then, of course, I rabbit holed and like, went on the internet and buried alive and how long do you have in a box and like how?

00:54:44.516 --> 00:54:59.465
another day at the office and so like having like a code word if I was really freaking out or you know, that was helpful but also like well, what if I pass out and I can't say the code word and I died, and then I was like, well, they're not gonna let me be in there that long.

00:54:59.606 --> 00:55:10.257
So worst case scenario, I pass out easy for you to say how long were you down there not, it was seriously not that long, but it was terrifying for everyone else to watch.

00:55:10.865 --> 00:55:12.632
And it was also the lead up to it.

00:55:12.632 --> 00:55:17.353
I had finally come to peace with it, like come to terms with it myself throughout the day.

00:55:17.353 --> 00:55:19.724
But leading up to it, everyone's like oh, are you?

00:55:19.724 --> 00:55:26.940
Are you freaking out about getting buried alive and all this stuff that could go wrong, and I'm like you're not helping.

00:55:27.215 --> 00:55:28.139
Yeah, I am now.

00:55:29.775 --> 00:55:30.981
Thanks for making me aware of that.

00:55:31.375 --> 00:55:33.402
Why does somebody have to be in the box at all?

00:55:33.402 --> 00:55:35.762
Because they're shooting inside the box.

00:55:36.074 --> 00:55:49.360
And then they did a whole other thing where we did like on the stages, we created like stuff inside the box, but they needed to see her body go in, Right, they thought this would be a really good shot of her no cutaways of her getting in the box, the box, a box, shedding the dirt going on Right.

00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:54.478
Oh my God, it did look really terrifying, cause you're like there's no cut, there's a person in that box.

00:55:54.498 --> 00:55:56.144
Yeah, someone's in the box, yeah.

00:55:56.335 --> 00:55:58.635
Did you ever see the movie buried with Ryan Reynolds?

00:55:59.416 --> 00:55:59.597
No.

00:56:00.257 --> 00:56:00.856
Oh, my God.

00:56:00.876 --> 00:56:01.197
Watch this.

00:56:01.197 --> 00:56:02.518
I'm probably glad I didn't see it.

00:56:02.518 --> 00:56:03.438
Watch this movie.

00:56:03.579 --> 00:56:07.440
That's such a great story though.

00:56:07.561 --> 00:56:15.105
Wow, you kind of lead us into our next question, which is the training involved, the lifestyle that's involved in what you do.

00:56:15.105 --> 00:56:25.010
Obviously you can't train for, or maybe you do, maybe you can train for every injury, so you don't get it, but injuries are going to be part of the day-to-day.

00:56:25.010 --> 00:56:27.050
So what is that lifestyle like?

00:56:27.050 --> 00:56:28.132
What is that training like?

00:56:28.831 --> 00:56:30.813
So I like to say we get hurt a lot.

00:56:30.813 --> 00:56:33.137
We try to avoid injury.

00:56:33.137 --> 00:56:35.143
So you're going to get hurt because that's your job.

00:56:35.143 --> 00:56:43.507
Your job is to do the dangerous stuff that people don't do, but your job is also to not get injured and become a liability.

00:56:43.507 --> 00:56:55.123
So you're right in a sense that you do train to not get injured and the more experience speaks volumes, because experience over time you see what could go wrong.

00:56:55.123 --> 00:56:58.702
Unfortunately, you see the bad things and there are always going to be more bad things.

00:56:58.702 --> 00:57:04.581
But the more experience you have and the more you take in from people who have experience, so you have your own experiences.

00:57:05.255 --> 00:57:08.864
I try to talk to as many people as possible before doing a stunt.

00:57:08.864 --> 00:57:09.646
Hey, have you done this?

00:57:09.646 --> 00:57:10.228
Have you done this?

00:57:10.228 --> 00:57:16.237
What's your experience?

00:57:16.237 --> 00:57:17.099
Like doing like a bail out of a car.

00:57:17.099 --> 00:57:18.222
You have your own experiences and you can train it.

00:57:18.222 --> 00:57:18.483
You can like.

00:57:18.483 --> 00:57:20.695
When I did my first car bail, which is a moving car, you jump out the door.

00:57:20.695 --> 00:57:25.041
The first time I did that I went to my friend's farm.

00:57:25.041 --> 00:57:29.286
He had a four by four, what's it called?

00:57:30.568 --> 00:57:32.030
Yeah, like a four wheeler type.

00:57:35.340 --> 00:57:37.784
Did I mention I got hit in the head a lot, no.

00:57:37.824 --> 00:57:41.476
So we like, timed it, the quad, I had this, the speedometer on it.

00:57:41.476 --> 00:57:43.963
I did different speeds and marks.

00:57:43.963 --> 00:57:55.028
So if I jump out here, if I see the mark, then it's eight feet from the time I see the mark and the time I jump, If I'm at 15 miles an hour it's 10 feet, If we're at 15 or 20 miles an hour, whatever the thing is.

00:57:55.028 --> 00:57:57.141
So I had a little notebook, I had my own experience.

00:57:57.141 --> 00:57:59.635
I asked people like how do you fall out of the car, how do you do it?

00:57:59.635 --> 00:58:01.137
And I've got you know.

00:58:01.137 --> 00:58:09.007
You layer on these experiences so you do prevent, so you can prevent yourself from getting injured as opposed to getting hurt.

00:58:09.748 --> 00:58:11.311
I have a huge scar on my hand.

00:58:11.311 --> 00:58:22.438
I call it my blind spot tattoo, because we changed the N mark for one of these car bales and I was like, if my calculations are correct, I'm going to land right on that manhole cover, but I'm going to protect my head.

00:58:22.438 --> 00:58:24.646
So when I land on it it'll be my hand, not my head.

00:58:24.646 --> 00:58:25.916
Nothing I can do about it.

00:58:25.916 --> 00:58:27.860
That's just where we're going to land.

00:58:27.860 --> 00:58:32.007
I'm telling you because if this is the mark and we move the mark up eight feet, I know where I'm going to land.

00:58:32.007 --> 00:58:33.650
So luckily I was prepared for that.

00:58:33.650 --> 00:58:34.617
I did hit the cover.

00:58:34.617 --> 00:58:36.222
They tried to put dirt on it.

00:58:36.222 --> 00:58:41.041
We tried to do the best we could with what we had and have this nice little hole in my hand now.

00:58:41.041 --> 00:58:49.039
I say blind spot tattoo because in the show, the blind spot, the character I doubled, was covered in tattoos, Jamie.

00:58:49.059 --> 00:58:49.440
Alexander, right?

00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:50.842
Yes, the character I doubled was covered in tattoos.

00:58:50.842 --> 00:58:52.143
Jamie Alexander, right yes, jamie.

00:58:52.164 --> 00:58:52.583
Alexander.

00:58:52.583 --> 00:58:57.811
Yeah, she's incredible, one of the most amazing human beings on this planet by the way, very cool.

00:58:58.472 --> 00:59:04.097
You know, as you touch upon her, I was going to ask about training and how often you have to be in the gym and stuff like that.

00:59:04.097 --> 00:59:18.831
But before we hit that, as long as you bring up Jamie Alexander, are there actors you've worked with who like to do their own stunts, are more brave than others, who are some people that stand out in that realm?

00:59:19.295 --> 00:59:26.903
Well, jamie, really in the beginning and I only say this because her body just got trashed after a while In the beginning she was really gung-ho about doing what she could.

00:59:26.903 --> 00:59:43.539
But also the good thing about Jamie is that she knew that this is a stunt thing Like you do this but she wanted to be as authentic as possible and not only did she want to do her stunt, she wanted to know what I was doing so that we could seamlessly go in and out.

00:59:43.539 --> 00:59:46.266
So, like I would do a role and she'd be like how did you come out of this?

00:59:46.266 --> 00:59:48.000
And I'd be like and how are you going to go into this?

00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:49.525
And I would see what she was going to do.

00:59:49.525 --> 00:59:54.320
She come out of this and I'd be like and how are you going to go into this?

00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:56.286
And I would see what she was going to do, she would see what I was going to do, and we would really.

00:59:56.306 --> 00:59:58.675
We worked really well together in bridging that gap, which I think is paramount to creating a realistic performance.

00:59:58.675 --> 01:00:07.143
So she I have to commend her the most on that for really wanting this to look good and to do it right and not just say I did the stunt.

01:00:07.143 --> 01:00:07.826
You know what I mean.

01:00:07.826 --> 01:00:15.561
So she was always gung-ho for doing whatever she could to make it look as best as it could, to the best of her ability and knowing where her abilities lag.

01:00:15.561 --> 01:00:22.083
So I have to say that that was probably the best person and we worked together for a really, really long time.

01:00:22.083 --> 01:00:23.139
We would work out together.

01:00:23.139 --> 01:00:26.976
So because she was vegan, I was like I guess I'm vegan now because I got to look like her.

01:00:26.996 --> 01:00:29.541
So I'm vegan now because I got to look like her,

01:00:29.561 --> 01:00:30.862
so that really, I mean Method.

01:00:30.943 --> 01:00:32.103
Acting, that's right.

01:00:32.103 --> 01:00:34.067
That's not acting, that's biology, that's just like.

01:00:34.387 --> 01:00:35.489
I learned something today.

01:00:35.489 --> 01:00:36.831
There you go.

01:00:41.534 --> 01:00:45.039
And I have to say also, kate Winslet was really wanting to do a lot of things but again was like if this looks better, if you do it, I don't care if you do it.

01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:52.108
And there were things where I had to, like, fall down the stairs and I'm like you don't want to fall down, you're not even going to see me, they're going to see my legs, like getting beat up.

01:00:52.128 --> 01:00:53.291
But she debated it, she thought about it.

01:00:54.235 --> 01:00:55.280
I don't think she even thought about it.

01:00:55.280 --> 01:00:56.442
I think she was like, yeah, go ahead.

01:00:56.442 --> 01:01:00.117
She was like if I don't need to fall down the stairs.

01:01:00.117 --> 01:01:03.579
I don't know, I'm not going to it.

01:01:03.579 --> 01:01:07.242
Just kind of had her at the, but she was.

01:01:07.242 --> 01:01:08.503
She's a badass, she's.

01:01:08.503 --> 01:01:11.784
Kate Winslet was just a doll to work with.

01:01:12.246 --> 01:01:12.985
And great show too.

01:01:12.985 --> 01:01:15.068
By the way, that was a great show yeah.

01:01:15.447 --> 01:01:17.009
Oh, so mesmerizing?

01:01:17.009 --> 01:01:20.472
This seems like an appropriate question, but I don't want to put you on the spot.

01:01:25.775 --> 01:01:30.829
But if you could have any superpower that would make your job easier, what would it be Any superpower to make?

01:01:30.849 --> 01:01:35.204
my job easier, like as a stunt woman maybe no pain?

01:01:35.605 --> 01:01:45.887
well, not no pain, because I think pain is a good indicator of reaction and being a good actor, but maybe like a regenerative super oh, okay, like a wolverine, yeah I like that.

01:01:46.128 --> 01:01:46.835
That's good.

01:01:46.835 --> 01:01:51.867
That's a great answer, because then you could still do the job and then just be, like good for another take.

01:01:51.867 --> 01:02:01.114
I have to ask after a crazy day on set of you falling down stairs and jumping out of cars, what do you do to unwind?

01:02:01.114 --> 01:02:03.664
How do you get back down?

01:02:06.619 --> 01:02:10.387
You have to understand that social life doesn't exist.

01:02:10.387 --> 01:02:13.896
I have missed many a wedding funeral.

01:02:13.896 --> 01:02:20.159
I mean this if you're and this goes back to like watering the garden you're committed to your job, you get hired because you're reliable.

01:02:20.159 --> 01:02:27.403
You're hired because they know they can count on you and in order to make a living and to be that reliable person.

01:02:27.403 --> 01:02:30.182
You can't just be like, oh, I can't do the rest of this job, I have to go to a wedding.

01:02:30.182 --> 01:02:30.673
It's like that's your.

01:02:30.673 --> 01:02:31.141
You can't just be like, oh, I can't do the rest of this job, I have to go to a wedding.

01:02:31.141 --> 01:02:32.278
It's like that's your life.

01:02:32.278 --> 01:02:33.222
You know it becomes your life.

01:02:33.222 --> 01:02:46.411
But as far as like unwinding, honestly, my job is so, at least up until now in my career the job itself is so fulfilling that, oh, I do like to eat.

01:02:47.717 --> 01:02:55.623
I do like food and that is actually the one thing, like the one reward, and I found a group of other stunt people that share my love of food.

01:02:56.034 --> 01:02:57.079
They're all foodies like you.

01:02:57.099 --> 01:02:57.862
True foodie.

01:02:57.862 --> 01:03:05.300
When I got my first big paycheck, the first thing I wanted to do was to go to Blue Hill at Stone Barns and do their tasting menu.

01:03:05.702 --> 01:03:06.764
Sure, that place is great.

01:03:06.994 --> 01:03:08.201
Oh God.

01:03:12.034 --> 01:03:14.820
It was worth every penny every penny, I assume you're no longer a vegan.

01:03:14.820 --> 01:03:18.588
Oh no, I was I mean and honestly, like it is crazy how I I saw her body changing.

01:03:18.628 --> 01:03:23.414
I'm like, oh, I gotta, you know, get a little thinner in certain parts of my body and I'm like I guess I'll.

01:03:23.414 --> 01:03:31.135
Just I couldn't think of what else to do, so I just started, I started eating like she did, and I did started looking like her, but and I did start looking like her.

01:03:31.135 --> 01:03:42.744
But then I noticed I was getting thin and things started hurting when I was falling because I wasn't as built and I figured it out eventually, but it's true.

01:03:43.327 --> 01:03:51.760
So I'm curious and I don't want this to be a downer question, because it's certainly not intended that way, but I feel like I have to ask a realistic question.

01:03:51.760 --> 01:04:02.940
So you're in a business that's all about your body and your strength and your training and your ability to take a punch, so to speak.

01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:09.827
How long do people typically stay in your profession?

01:04:09.827 --> 01:04:13.931
Are there stunt actors who are 50, who are 60?

01:04:13.931 --> 01:04:16.965
And if not, what do people tend to transition to?

01:04:17.635 --> 01:04:21.760
Some people do transition into coordinating or directing, until the day she died.

01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:27.219
Jeannie Epper, who was Wonder Woman's stunt double, Linda Carter right.

01:04:27.641 --> 01:04:28.342
Yeah, Linda Carter.

01:04:28.382 --> 01:04:30.327
Okay, wow, Again hitting it.

01:04:30.327 --> 01:04:35.320
Linda Carter's stunt double worked like the day she died.

01:04:35.521 --> 01:05:02.260
I was in amazing spider-man 2 with her when she was in I want to say her 70s oh, wow um, but like you know, you're not going to be doing full-on car hits when you're 70, but like you get hit in the face and fall down and you were saying earlier about like all the different stunts, like, like the fire, the fighting, the driving, you're leaving out the things like protecting the camera or being the person that buffers the background to the main action, or there's a fire and you're just on the perimeter.

01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:09.400
That's the job of a stunt performer as well, because there's risk involved and there's one in maybe a hundred chances that something will happen.

01:05:09.400 --> 01:05:24.275
But in that case that stunt performer is worth every penny because you catch somebody, or you just happen to catch like a bullet shell to your face as opposed to a background person or somebody else, which has happened on set near me with stunt performers.

01:05:24.275 --> 01:05:40.510
So all this again, like that's where, like, the experience comes into play, and seeing what could go wrong and trying to prevent all that and that is another aspect of being a stunt performer is being that they call it the not hot hotspot is what Jill Brown used to say.

01:05:40.510 --> 01:05:45.365
So yeah, it doesn't seem like much, but it could be your saving grace in the scene.

01:05:46.295 --> 01:05:46.494
All right.

01:05:46.494 --> 01:05:51.318
What Sam asked was actually a really good question, which was, you know, the idea of the shelf life.

01:05:51.318 --> 01:05:59.603
I want to ask you a little bit more about the transition of what a stunt performer, slash coordinator has now become.

01:05:59.603 --> 01:06:36.503
Obviously, in my opinion, john wick is one of the most influential films in the last 20 years, easily, because you cannot have an action film these days without putting in the work of it has to look like john wick, right, because and that was essentially a stunt coordinator who then moved to the next evolution of his career, which was a director- Right, I mean second unit up to actually being yeah.

01:06:36.563 --> 01:06:37.206
Yeah to the guy.

01:06:37.206 --> 01:06:39.563
It takes that realism to a whole new level.

01:06:39.563 --> 01:06:43.246
Obviously, keanu Reeves is one of these guys who's all about trying to do his own stunts.

01:06:43.246 --> 01:06:45.240
Tom Cruise is another one.

01:06:45.240 --> 01:06:49.927
He does lots to do a lot of his own stunts, almost to the point where I think he might have a death wish.

01:06:49.927 --> 01:06:56.480
Yeah, he likes to do a lot of his own stunts, almost to the point where I think he might have a death wish.

01:06:56.480 --> 01:07:05.295
If you watch some of his other movies, are you a lot more impressed now to see the evolution of your profession, where it was essentially just you're just the person who falls off the building to now you're calling the shots in many cases.

01:07:05.295 --> 01:07:09.806
Like you are as important as the director in many cases because you make a movie look realistic.

01:07:10.536 --> 01:07:15.534
Oh yeah, stunt coordinator for sure, and moving into that role in those kinds of films, absolutely.

01:07:15.534 --> 01:07:20.146
I mean, if there is going to be an evolution, I'm glad it's going in that direction.

01:07:20.146 --> 01:07:20.896
You know what I mean.

01:07:20.896 --> 01:07:25.672
Like someone that has the eye and has the sensibilities of a director.

01:07:25.672 --> 01:07:28.398
I don't think every stunt coordinator does, to be honest, um right.

01:07:28.559 --> 01:07:43.525
However, chad's a really good example of someone that sees it, he gets it, you know, he gets the visual, he gets the storytelling very much so, and there are many even within the stunt community in New York right now a lot of people that are it kind of came in when I did and who are my age.

01:07:43.525 --> 01:07:46.244
There's a guy named James Newman, a stunt guy.

01:07:46.244 --> 01:07:55.507
He went to film school and made film, so he already has this sensibility of how to direct and how to put stories together and tell a story.

01:07:55.507 --> 01:08:08.340
He's also a very accomplished martial artist, so he can tell stories through that and now I'm really happy to see that he's doing that on a smaller scale for now, but he's also coordinated at least in some other things and to have that storytelling capability.

01:08:08.340 --> 01:08:14.202
And, yes, that they're putting more responsibilities in a good way on stunt coordinators and fight coordinators to do that.

01:08:14.335 --> 01:08:19.951
And it's funny because when I was in Japan I spoke with one of the writer producers on that, about directing.

01:08:19.951 --> 01:08:24.636
I said you know, I really I really mad that I didn't do more directing.

01:08:24.636 --> 01:08:25.917
And they were like, well, why don't you direct?

01:08:25.917 --> 01:08:30.600
I'm like I don't know, I'm too old, I'm too young, I'm too like that experience.

01:08:30.600 --> 01:08:36.123
He's like you have just as much experience as most of the directors that come in on this show, if not more, absolutely.

01:08:36.323 --> 01:08:37.904
And I just was a little head scratcher.

01:08:37.904 --> 01:08:45.748
And before the end of that, before I even left Tokyo, I was like I'm going to do it, I'm going to, I'm going to direct the movie and then get it, Just do something.

01:08:45.748 --> 01:08:52.172
And I thought I'll find a short movie and direct it, which turned into I'm going to write a feature and direct and produce it.

01:08:54.935 --> 01:08:56.158
So that happened.

01:08:56.158 --> 01:08:56.939
What was your feature?

01:08:56.939 --> 01:08:57.681
What was your feature?

01:08:58.143 --> 01:08:59.405
I had a co-writer with me.

01:08:59.405 --> 01:09:03.438
My feature was called F Word.

01:09:03.438 --> 01:09:05.060
It was not a stunty movie whatsoever.

01:09:05.060 --> 01:09:06.283
There was one stunt in the movie.

01:09:06.804 --> 01:09:09.588
But I'm very much so like I love bridesmaids.

01:09:09.588 --> 01:09:12.416
I love those kind of movies.

01:09:12.416 --> 01:09:26.182
I'm very much so into comedy and also into storytelling, and I had a friend at the time that he was a straight dude that did like rocky horror and he would dress up for fun and people would be like, oh, you're gay, this.

01:09:26.182 --> 01:09:30.527
I'm like it's so funny how, just looking at someone, they'd call him the f word and throughout just talking about it with him.

01:09:30.527 --> 01:09:33.577
I'm like it's so funny how, just looking at someone, they'd call him the f-word and throughout just talking about it with him.

01:09:33.577 --> 01:09:35.082
I'm like do you want to write this movie with me?

01:09:35.082 --> 01:09:36.395
Because I can't seem.

01:09:36.395 --> 01:09:39.042
Or I was supposed to be a short and we started brainstorming.

01:09:39.042 --> 01:09:44.287
I'm like this is too much to be a short, ended up turning into a feature.

01:09:44.488 --> 01:09:46.375
I didn't go to school for screenwriting whatsoever.

01:09:46.615 --> 01:09:51.996
So of course I like went to master class and did Aaron Sorkin's screenwriting class.

01:09:52.457 --> 01:09:56.287
I got Save the Cat, I got all the books that you're supposed to get to screenwrite.

01:09:56.306 --> 01:10:22.378
So one summer I just like read everything about screenwriting did practice runs with like little stories and as I went through it, the same guy that was like you can direct, he was a writer and he was like I will script, doctor, your script, which is, for those of you who don't know, people get hired to specifically do that to look at scripts and make sure that it makes sense to say that your points in your story happen when they're supposed to happen.

01:10:22.378 --> 01:10:26.518
You have your villain, you have your antagonist, you have all the people that you need to have.

01:10:26.518 --> 01:10:30.363
Make sure it happens on the pages, that it should happen on just whatever.

01:10:30.363 --> 01:10:33.890
And he did that for me and voila, I'm saying it like it was easy.

01:10:33.890 --> 01:10:40.376
It was one of the most difficult things, one of the most difficult things I've ever done in my life and one of the most rewarding things and one of the.

01:10:40.376 --> 01:10:52.849
The thing that made me realize it was a passion beyond compare, because I would go days without sleeping and have boundless energy, like storytelling in its pure form and having that creative freedom.

01:10:53.456 --> 01:10:54.742
Where could people find this?

01:10:55.234 --> 01:11:02.043
It is currently in my computer because I have to pay for some rights before I can.

01:11:02.904 --> 01:11:04.146
Got it, get it out.

01:11:04.146 --> 01:11:04.587
We want to see.

01:11:04.587 --> 01:11:05.287
We got to come over.

01:11:05.287 --> 01:11:06.909
You got to come over.

01:11:06.909 --> 01:11:07.291
It will.

01:11:07.291 --> 01:11:07.711
It will be.

01:11:08.034 --> 01:11:10.122
We are definitely planning on distributing it?

01:11:10.122 --> 01:11:25.326
For sure it's, it's in the works, for actually, because of one of the songs, I'm actually going to be recording my own voice singing this song and then paying for the rights for it for that, and you'll see what it is if you check it out when it comes out.

01:11:25.326 --> 01:11:26.577
But it will, it will come out.

01:11:26.577 --> 01:11:30.503
So I will say F word written and directed by Heidi Doreen Schnapp.

01:11:31.606 --> 01:11:32.207
Very cool.

01:11:32.207 --> 01:11:33.109
You're so built for this.

01:11:33.109 --> 01:11:36.364
We could just see in this conversation you light up when you talk about your work.

01:11:36.364 --> 01:11:47.783
I just have to ask you one more before we get to some advice what's something and you've told us so much, you've shared so much already, but what's something that we would be surprised to know about being a stunt woman?

01:11:47.783 --> 01:11:57.908
Just your life in general, like what your day-to-day is like and those types of things, or just something that your inner circle knows and the rest of the world does not?

01:11:58.475 --> 01:12:01.125
Well, wouldn't that defeat the purpose of us knowing, and you not?

01:12:01.125 --> 01:12:03.399
We're trying to get that out of you.

01:12:04.162 --> 01:12:08.323
Maybe there's nothing, Maybe the answer is it is what it is.

01:12:09.425 --> 01:12:10.106
Well, here's the thing.

01:12:10.106 --> 01:12:13.564
There's a famous quote of Fred Astaire, and what's her face?

01:12:13.604 --> 01:12:13.925
Ginger Rogers.

01:12:13.944 --> 01:12:14.166
Ginger.

01:12:14.206 --> 01:12:14.506
Rogers.

01:12:14.506 --> 01:12:16.180
I had Rogers in my head.

01:12:16.180 --> 01:12:21.345
I'm like Judy, where she's like we do everything men do, but we do it backwards and in heels.

01:12:21.345 --> 01:12:23.556
So that is being a stunt.

01:12:23.556 --> 01:12:33.806
Woman is, and even to this day I was going to say sometimes not so much, but no, we do everything the guys do, but in a nightie and without pads.

01:12:33.806 --> 01:12:36.770
There are dudes that have done like naked stunts.

01:12:36.770 --> 01:12:49.960
I'm not going to take that away from them, but in general women's wardrobe just happens to be not as covering, much more revealing.

01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:55.457
You know, I've done many more, many, many very difficult, hard-hitting stunts in very little clothing.

01:12:55.457 --> 01:13:01.809
Um, just hits a little harder, literally larry, that was a great question.

01:13:01.828 --> 01:13:04.139
Well, we did get there.

01:13:04.139 --> 01:13:14.738
So, heidi um, at the end of the show we always like to ask our guests to sort of lay out a roadmap for somebody coming up behind them.

01:13:14.738 --> 01:13:24.286
So if there is a younger person who wants to break into the business, become a stunt person, a stunt woman, what advice do you have for them?

01:13:25.375 --> 01:13:43.520
Advice I would have for someone who truly wants to be a stunt performer is to be specific, to commit to it and to find who you look up to, Find the genre, find the things that you like, find the people that do what you want to do.

01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:57.457
If you want to get into stunts, in general, I would definitely say to find somewhere to learn some martial arts, whether or not you want to be a fighter, Because, again, like I was saying that you're going to fall, you want to know how to fall right.

01:13:57.457 --> 01:14:02.377
Be humble, and I think this is kind of like general life stuff.

01:14:02.377 --> 01:14:05.344
The same goes for stunts as it would for anything else.

01:14:05.344 --> 01:14:08.395
Always ask people's names, write them down.

01:14:08.395 --> 01:14:11.318
You know these simple little things, like if you truly want to do it.

01:14:11.318 --> 01:14:26.069
Also, my number one thing I tell any young person whether I want to be a stunt person or not, have your dreams and follow them and don't be afraid to let them change something.

01:14:26.069 --> 01:14:29.051
And, like you see people doing fighting, you're like well, I'll never do that.

01:14:29.171 --> 01:14:30.631
No you're allowed to change your mind.

01:14:30.631 --> 01:14:38.081
What I would advise against is changing it too quickly and to give up on something, but allowing that to shift.

01:14:38.081 --> 01:14:39.845
You find something new in the thing that you're doing.

01:14:39.845 --> 01:14:41.528
Follow it, don't be afraid.

01:14:41.528 --> 01:14:44.342
Don't be afraid to allow your dreams to change.

01:14:45.216 --> 01:14:46.380
How much of it is.

01:14:46.380 --> 01:14:47.363
Don't be a can't.

01:14:47.363 --> 01:14:53.282
If you think you can or you think you can't, you're right, right, that's right, that's what I've always said.

01:14:53.301 --> 01:14:54.704
Somebody says I can't do that.

01:14:54.704 --> 01:14:55.327
I agree.

01:14:55.327 --> 01:14:57.137
You've already made up your mind.

01:14:57.998 --> 01:14:58.479
That's great.

01:14:59.261 --> 01:15:01.587
Well, heidi, this has been incredible.

01:15:01.587 --> 01:15:04.198
Thank you for all of this time.

01:15:04.198 --> 01:15:12.157
And, before we say our final goodbye, if people want to learn more about you, what are you working on?

01:15:12.157 --> 01:15:12.698
Where can they find you?

01:15:12.698 --> 01:15:13.902
Is there a website that people can go to?

01:15:13.902 --> 01:15:15.485
How do people learn more about Heidi?

01:15:15.694 --> 01:15:16.698
Ah, yeah, well, I have.

01:15:16.698 --> 01:15:22.159
If you want to know about the directing direction I'm going in, I'm on Instagram, at TheOtherHeidi.

01:15:22.159 --> 01:15:24.587
If you want to check out some of my stunt stuff.

01:15:24.587 --> 01:15:31.729
I'm at StuntGirlHeidi on Instagram as well, and I have a website, theotherheidycom.

01:15:32.194 --> 01:15:35.985
Which I have been to and I found it very, very interesting.

01:15:37.015 --> 01:15:39.970
I got to repair some links on there, but at least you know it's a good jumping.

01:15:39.970 --> 01:15:41.780
Well, I found it very helpful.

01:15:42.524 --> 01:15:45.564
Yeah, so Heidi Schnappauf, did I say it correctly?

01:15:45.564 --> 01:15:49.145
Yeah, mm-hmm, excellent, thank you so much for joining us.

01:15:49.515 --> 01:15:51.623
Thank you for having me, this was fun.

01:15:52.496 --> 01:15:55.282
So that was Heidi Germaine Schnappauf.

01:15:55.282 --> 01:16:01.722
Just an incredible conversation about being I mean literally a fearless self-starter.

01:16:01.722 --> 01:16:03.648
Larry Shea, what are your takeaways?

01:16:04.095 --> 01:16:06.479
Yeah, I mean, she's so courageous.

01:16:06.479 --> 01:16:13.118
I mean, just that's what I take away is she's brave, you know, she's truly brave and passionate about what she does.

01:16:13.118 --> 01:16:18.140
We talk about it all the time that some people are just built for what they become in this world.

01:16:18.140 --> 01:16:34.243
And between the martial arts and the acting out the fight scenes when she was a kid and the athletics and all of it, you could just feel like that was what was going to make her happy and she was going to find it through hell or high water and it was really cool to see.

01:16:34.243 --> 01:16:41.337
And there's a couple of pivotal moments in her life, right when she sees the behind the scenes Tomb Raider, she's like, ooh, what's that job?

01:16:41.337 --> 01:16:42.382
I could do that, you know.

01:16:43.175 --> 01:16:46.755
I just love the fact that she sent like 500 letters to people.

01:16:46.755 --> 01:16:54.039
You can use this in any profession find the people that you admire or want to become and contact them.

01:16:54.039 --> 01:17:05.702
Get to know who they are, what they look like, what their names are, because if they're sitting on a bus next to you, you can have that conversation with them, but you don't know it unless you know who these people are.

01:17:05.702 --> 01:17:11.936
So so smart of her to do that and great advice, you know obviously be good to work with.

01:17:11.936 --> 01:17:13.556
We talk about that all the time.

01:17:13.556 --> 01:17:21.261
Right, but be specific, commit to it and find the people that do the stuff that you want to do.

01:17:21.261 --> 01:17:25.063
I loved her approach and I loved how she built a world for herself.

01:17:25.063 --> 01:17:25.703
That is truly remarkable.

01:17:25.703 --> 01:17:26.564
She's an incredible person.

01:17:26.564 --> 01:17:27.644
That is truly remarkable.

01:17:27.644 --> 01:17:28.885
She's an incredible person.

01:17:29.305 --> 01:17:50.729
One big thing I took away from this is you know, there's a line from a Dirty Harry movie with Clint Eastwood, which is a man's got to know his limitations, and it applies in this case because she was very much looking for her niche in the world of movies and we've spoken to other people before in this kind of world Some are producers, some are directors and that in that sense.

01:17:50.729 --> 01:17:57.880
But we rarely get this glimpse, this portion of this kind of world television and movies where you're in front of the camera but not the quote-unquote star.

01:17:57.880 --> 01:17:59.204
You're doing something different.

01:17:59.204 --> 01:18:15.649
And she learned early on in her career that she didn't think she had the makeup to be the big star, like she didn't have the makeup to be angelina jolie, but she had the makeup to be the person who kind of subs in for Angelina Jolie and is still in front of the camera.

01:18:15.649 --> 01:18:19.780
So in many cases she kind of understood what her role would be.

01:18:19.961 --> 01:18:32.438
In the world of making movies was more than content to follow that dream, and follow that dream very gung ho, making sure she builds out this world of people who do the same job that she does, getting advice from them.

01:18:32.438 --> 01:18:40.836
That's what we all kind of act and we try to put that forward in so many of the people that we speak with, that it's not simply going forward and pushing forward with a dream.

01:18:40.836 --> 01:18:48.002
Sometimes you want to try and get a bigger picture, a more realistic picture of what the job actually is, what it entails.

01:18:48.002 --> 01:19:00.905
So to do that you have to ask people who are actually doing it and once you get that base of people who kind of are in that world with you and give you and can give you advice, it better informs your choices moving down the line.

01:19:01.274 --> 01:19:01.877
Absolutely.

01:19:01.877 --> 01:19:16.069
You know, and, building upon all of that, we were joking that she was wearing this t-shirt during the interview that said don't be a can't and I'm giving serious consideration to titling the episode don't be a can't.

01:19:16.069 --> 01:19:32.761
So it might already be that way, we'll see, but that was this overarching theme of everything we discussed and I found it so interesting and I think this came up when we were talking before and after the interview about she wanted to start a podcast.

01:19:32.761 --> 01:19:33.984
She learned how to do that.

01:19:33.984 --> 01:19:37.618
She wanted to write a screenplay, so she took a course to do that.

01:19:37.618 --> 01:19:42.351
She wanted to be better at martial arts, so she did that.

01:19:42.412 --> 01:19:51.378
Like, throughout her life, throughout her journey, she has been continuously learning, which is one of the most important things for anybody out there to learn Always be curious, keep learning, which is one of the most important things for anybody out there to learn.

01:19:51.378 --> 01:19:55.947
Always be curious, keep learning, keep growing, keep evolving.

01:19:55.947 --> 01:20:06.601
And you know, one of the key things she talked about with her advice was don't be afraid to change your dreams, and I just thought that was so interesting.

01:20:06.601 --> 01:20:19.582
It's like you have to see them through, make sure that you give them an honest chance and to see things develop, but don't be afraid to pivot as you start to open your mind to what some of the different possibilities in life can be.

01:20:19.984 --> 01:20:22.318
Yeah, pete Dominick said the same thing to us, right?

01:20:22.318 --> 01:20:23.622
I think he was like you know what?

01:20:23.622 --> 01:20:28.920
There is no shame in changing the direction of your goal, right?

01:20:28.920 --> 01:20:35.896
No one says that when you're five years old and you say I want to be a fireman or want to be a tree, then at 35, if you're not a tree, you screwed up.

01:20:35.896 --> 01:20:37.280
No, that's not the case, right?

01:20:37.280 --> 01:20:40.570
No, it's not the case.

01:20:40.570 --> 01:20:50.028
You can always be something else and there's no shame in that, especially if it's like the overarching goal is okay, I want to be in the movies, but I'm not going to be Angelina Jolie.

01:20:50.028 --> 01:20:53.011
So how do I be in the movies without being Angelina Jolie?

01:20:53.011 --> 01:20:57.381
So that's really just shaping the goal to the surroundings that you're in.

01:20:57.381 --> 01:20:59.426
I think it's great advice, totally great advice.

01:21:00.336 --> 01:21:11.109
I agree wholeheartedly, and I'm telling you, if you're going to steal one thing from this interview and use it for whatever your dreams might be, it's her resourcefulness.

01:21:11.109 --> 01:21:18.322
She wasn't afraid to put herself out there and find people who had the answers to the questions that she had.

01:21:18.322 --> 01:21:23.041
So, whatever your profession is, do that, because look what it did for her.

01:21:23.421 --> 01:21:25.560
That's exactly right, and she's still going.

01:21:25.560 --> 01:21:27.622
She talked about a writing project.

01:21:27.622 --> 01:21:30.885
We know that she was an actor and she acted.

01:21:30.885 --> 01:21:36.082
And we talked about Harry Greenberger off the top, somebody was on one of our previous episodes.

01:21:36.082 --> 01:21:38.282
She was in one of his movies as an actor.

01:21:38.282 --> 01:21:43.135
So just keep going, keep evolving, keep growing and follow your dreams.

01:21:43.135 --> 01:21:43.615
Heidi.

01:21:43.615 --> 01:21:48.207
Germain Schnappoff is a perfect example of doing exactly that.

01:21:48.207 --> 01:21:52.827
Heidi, thank you so much for joining this episode of no Wrong Choices.

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Thanks again for joining us.

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If this episode made you think of somebody who could be a great guest, we'd love to hear from you.

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Please reach out to us through the contact page of our website at norongchoicescom.

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While you're there, check out the blog for a deeper look at our takeaways from each episode.

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You can also connect with us on social media.

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We're on LinkedIn, instagram, facebook, youtube and X.

01:22:16.185 --> 01:22:20.503
On behalf of Larry Shea, tushar Saxena and me, larry Samuels.

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Thank you again for listening.

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We'll be back next week with another inspiring conversation.