April 2, 2024

The Voice of Legacy: Rich Demarco's March to the Mic of West Point

The Voice of Legacy: Rich Demarco's March to the Mic of West Point
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Season 4

Discover the voice behind West Point's legacy, Rich DeMarco, in this gripping episode of No Wrong Choices. From WFAN intern to sports broadcasting icon, Rich shares the passion and grit required to narrate the journey of one of America's most storied military academies. His tale is more than a career story; it's a lesson in dedication, offering a rare look into the heart of West Point and the world of collegiate sports broadcasting. Tune in for an insider's view on game-day traditions, the unique spirit of military academies, and invaluable advice for aspiring broadcasters. 


To discover more episodes or connect with us:


Chapters

00:02 - Rich DeMarco

10:17 - Transitioning From Internship to Sports Broadcasting

18:19 - Crafting a Broadcaster's Preparation

24:10 - Comparing Military Academy Atmospheres

30:08 - Responsibility and Mistakes in Sports Commentary

42:24 - Insights on Sports Broadcasting Careers

50:59 - Career Longevity in College Athletics

53:55 - Advice for Pursuing Your Passion

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:02.625 --> 00:00:13.967
Hello and welcome to the Career Journey Podcast no Wrong Choices, where we speak with some of the world's most interesting and accomplished people to shine a light on the many different ways we can achieve success.

00:00:13.967 --> 00:00:18.571
I'm Larry Samuels, soon to be joined by Tushar Saxena and Larry Schenck.

00:00:18.571 --> 00:00:32.229
Please support our show by following no Wrong Choices on your favorite podcasting platform, connecting with us on LinkedIn, instagram, youtube, facebook X and Threads, or by visiting our website at norongchoicescom.

00:00:32.229 --> 00:00:42.481
This episode features the Associate Athletic Director and Play-By-Play man for the United States Military Academy at West Point, rich DeMarco Tushar.

00:00:42.481 --> 00:00:46.902
I know Rich is a good friend of yours, so why don't you set this one up for us All?

00:00:46.923 --> 00:00:47.122
right.

00:00:47.143 --> 00:00:50.371
So much like for Matt Pissaris who we had on last season.

00:00:50.941 --> 00:00:54.831
I've known Rich DeMarco since we were kids and I do mean that in a very literal sense.

00:00:54.831 --> 00:00:56.862
You know I was just a couple years ahead of him in school.

00:00:56.862 --> 00:00:59.527
He is a good friend of my cousin's.

00:00:59.527 --> 00:01:25.828
That's how I got to meet him and got to know him and I've had the pleasure of being friendly with him and being friends with him for the past 30 some odd years and to see his rise through the ranks and you know he's a bit weird in his journey because he hasn't had a lot of jobs and the job that he has currently over at West Point in many ways you could consider his dream job and you know, once you hear his story you'll understand why.

00:01:25.828 --> 00:01:45.287
Because he is part of a history and a tradition that so many of us will never understand and at an academy like West Point, with the history, the way it goes back to the very birth of this country, there's a lot of great stories to be had, to be told, to know and to be part of that culture is wonderful.

00:01:45.560 --> 00:01:46.745
I'm excited to talk to Rich.

00:01:46.745 --> 00:01:50.950
You know there's so much history, as you said, t, at West Point.

00:01:50.950 --> 00:01:55.131
I've never had the pleasure or the honor of visiting West Point.

00:01:55.131 --> 00:01:57.587
It's been on my bucket list for a long time.

00:01:57.587 --> 00:02:02.126
I go up to Bear Mountain to do some hiking and West Point is right there.

00:02:02.126 --> 00:02:04.004
It's so enticing in the Hudson Valley.

00:02:04.004 --> 00:02:07.012
It's gorgeous country, it's beautiful.

00:02:07.012 --> 00:02:12.211
But, yeah, the history, I mean it's just rich with tradition and history.

00:02:12.211 --> 00:02:20.665
And when you think about, you know, army football, army basketball, the institution of West Point is exciting and Rich is.

00:02:20.665 --> 00:02:22.740
He embodies it right.

00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:24.567
So really excited to talk to him.

00:02:24.567 --> 00:02:36.086
And you're right, t, I think this is his dream job and it's fascinating when you meet somebody who has their dream job at a really young age too, and it's been there for quite a while, so really fascinating story.

00:02:36.647 --> 00:02:37.659
Absolutely Well.

00:02:37.659 --> 00:02:43.491
With that, here is Rich DeMarco to tell us the story, or his story, of being at West Point.

00:02:43.491 --> 00:02:53.343
Now joining no Wrong Choices is the Associate Athletic Director and play-by-play man for the United States Military Academy at West Point, rich DeMarco.

00:02:53.343 --> 00:02:54.768
Rich, thank you so much for joining us.

00:02:54.768 --> 00:02:56.271
Thank you so much for having me, guys.

00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.987
All right, so his title sounds really important and long.

00:03:00.027 --> 00:03:01.531
I will tell you guys this.

00:03:02.092 --> 00:03:04.384
I mean I've known this guy a long time.

00:03:04.384 --> 00:03:05.989
We usually say full disclosure.

00:03:05.989 --> 00:03:08.947
So full disclosure I mean I've known him since we were kids.

00:03:08.947 --> 00:03:12.588
Another one we had a guest on a while ago who's also a mutual friend, matt Pizarro.

00:03:12.588 --> 00:03:13.512
It's over with the Bucs.

00:03:13.512 --> 00:03:30.030
I've known Rich DeMarco since we were kids, another one of the friends of my cousin, and you know I actually had the pleasure of having Rich be an intern under me while I was over at WFAN as well, and I'm sure there are plenty of stories that we can go back and forth with from that time as well.

00:03:30.030 --> 00:03:35.995
Rich, before we get into the stories and reminisce about the old days, why don't you tell folks what you're doing currently?

00:03:37.135 --> 00:03:39.018
So I got an amazing job right.

00:03:39.018 --> 00:03:52.705
I work at West Point, work in the athletic department, associate athletic director.

00:03:52.705 --> 00:03:55.192
I have my in in some different things um oversee our licensing, um work with some internal units like our it unit.

00:03:55.192 --> 00:04:10.040
You know leading that um also um our logistics, and then I'm able to also, you know, work with our external unit fairly extensively and um lucky enough to call the play-by-play for army football, army men's basketball and um just have a living, the dream, you know just what's the external, what's the external unit for the well I mean?

00:04:10.061 --> 00:04:10.643
that's br.

00:04:10.643 --> 00:04:14.032
You know whether our marketing, um, you know communications.

00:04:14.032 --> 00:04:19.072
You know whether it's emceeing stuff, um, you know being involved in you know some projects that we do.

00:04:19.072 --> 00:04:25.454
You know if we're uh doing uh like a video series to voiceover help conceptualize, you know things that nature.

00:04:25.454 --> 00:04:29.389
So it's really just awesome.

00:04:29.389 --> 00:04:31.985
Every day is different and it's a lot of fun.

00:04:31.985 --> 00:04:33.384
Right, going to work every day.

00:04:33.384 --> 00:04:40.711
You know people are great, the content is great and really, overall, right, we're all working for the Corps of Cadets.

00:04:40.711 --> 00:04:42.446
Right, 4,400 future leaders.

00:04:42.446 --> 00:04:46.622
So that makes it as fulfilling as you could find that's fantastic.

00:04:47.384 --> 00:04:48.367
Take us back to the beginning.

00:04:48.367 --> 00:04:49.408
Where'd you grow up?

00:04:49.408 --> 00:04:50.391
What was your childhood like?

00:04:50.391 --> 00:04:51.442
Were you always into sports?

00:04:51.442 --> 00:04:53.189
Was that always a part of it?

00:04:53.189 --> 00:04:53.850
And what sport?

00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:59.081
I was always into sports right, I never played football, but football was always my favorite sport.

00:04:59.081 --> 00:05:02.370
Of course, you know, played basketball baseball through like eighth grade.

00:05:02.370 --> 00:05:13.975
You know, in high school was able to, um you know, be a manager of our basketball team, which was actually really, really good and made um, made the state uh state quarterfinals in 1992 county.

00:05:13.995 --> 00:05:15.259
Who was better, you or matt pizarras in one-on-one?

00:05:15.259 --> 00:05:16.240
That was the uh.

00:05:16.261 --> 00:05:20.024
That was a good player, but I knew tushar because, um, you know tushar's cousins.

00:05:20.024 --> 00:05:26.069
But I knew Tushar because you know Tushar's cousins, Sanjay and Sunil.

00:05:26.069 --> 00:05:28.031
They, they were part of this.

00:05:28.031 --> 00:05:31.894
We called it rotisserie baseball back then, not fantasy.

00:05:32.035 --> 00:05:32.735
It's fantasy.

00:05:32.735 --> 00:05:34.476
I still call it that today.

00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:43.502
That's a new.

00:05:43.502 --> 00:05:46.014
And the rotisserie book would come out every year with its little one liners and the dollar projections for each player.

00:05:46.014 --> 00:05:49.589
Um so, tushar, you know, growing the league it was, you know they had sanjay's cousin.

00:05:49.589 --> 00:05:54.384
You know sneal's cousin from bergenfield would join, so tushar was part of our league.

00:05:54.384 --> 00:05:56.591
So I, you know the whole back and forth.

00:05:56.591 --> 00:05:59.000
You know you're arguing, you're fighting over trades.

00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:05.706
You know, pete and kavilia, doug dra, you know these kind of people Imagine those conversations hey.

00:06:06.266 --> 00:06:10.031
I'll trade you with Tushar, no less for feeding Kavalia.

00:06:10.031 --> 00:06:12.533
It was crazy, I mean it was.

00:06:12.593 --> 00:06:17.497
You know, I made a big run at Nick Asaski the year he assigned the Braves.

00:06:17.497 --> 00:06:18.156
Oh, I remember this.

00:06:18.156 --> 00:06:21.790
Then he got vertigo and really never played for them right after the big year with Boston.

00:06:21.790 --> 00:06:29.567
But no, it was just knowing Tushar and all the back and forth and everything and it was hilarious and it was a lot of fun.

00:06:29.567 --> 00:06:38.769
And then it was so interesting because you know, maybe from you know, when we were like in seventh or eighth grade, you know the four or five years after that.

00:06:38.769 --> 00:06:41.302
You know Tushar, a couple of years older than me, he's in college.

00:06:41.302 --> 00:06:44.362
And you know, in high school, older than me, he's in college.

00:06:44.362 --> 00:06:47.255
And you know, in high school, just hearing whether it's senile or son, just always at fordham, you know, doing this and everything.

00:06:47.255 --> 00:06:49.382
And then I I heard no one through the grapevine, he was at fan.

00:06:49.382 --> 00:07:06.196
So then my senior year in in college at rutgers, I interned at fan and there one of the you know the stalwart tape ops I was known as a tape guy and Tushar was like one of the top tape guys.

00:07:07.096 --> 00:07:09.822
And now I remember those Sunday shifts.

00:07:09.822 --> 00:07:16.502
Tushar would make sure that in the second studio that the VCR was running to tape the Sopranos for himself.

00:07:17.084 --> 00:07:19.088
And then we would All right, let me interrupt.

00:07:19.088 --> 00:07:32.242
So my rule for all interns was this you need to learn this job as quick as possible, because I want to watch TV from seven to eight at night with no interruptions, if you don't learn.

00:07:32.242 --> 00:07:38.194
If you don't learn, if you don't learn as quick as you can and I have to work from seven to eight your internship will be hell.

00:07:38.194 --> 00:07:39.795
That was, that was my rule.

00:07:40.214 --> 00:07:44.355
But there's something to be said for that, though, because I think when you're an intern, you know you.

00:07:44.355 --> 00:07:52.218
You know you're not going to learn unless you're thrown into the fire, and you know whether Tushar said that you know in jest or there was some seriousness.

00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:56.471
There was a lot of serious enjoyment but also the enrichment of the intern.

00:07:56.471 --> 00:08:04.949
I thought it was great, you know, working under Tushar and then you know Craig Chavities would show up, you know to do the IMA shift and everything you know.

00:08:04.949 --> 00:08:11.038
I had a lot of fun, a lot, lot of fun with the folks at FAN on the tape side Tape.

00:08:11.038 --> 00:08:13.925
There's a lot of pressure when you're doing tape but I loved it.

00:08:13.985 --> 00:08:15.630
Why is there pressure when you're doing tape?

00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:19.442
Because back then I mean you really couldn't pull it off.

00:08:19.442 --> 00:08:21.985
Archives, you know there were no like Internet archives.

00:08:21.985 --> 00:08:25.129
I could only imagine what it's like now going back.

00:08:25.129 --> 00:08:26.531
You know almost you're scrubbing back.

00:08:26.531 --> 00:08:28.932
You had to run on it, you had to roll on it.

00:08:28.932 --> 00:08:31.675
If you weren't rolling it was tough luck.

00:08:31.675 --> 00:08:44.307
And then you know you had to cut it, put it on the carts and then the update person would be there, you know, waiting for your carts and your.

00:08:44.307 --> 00:08:46.751
The initials were on every cart and I used to think it was so we could get credit.

00:08:46.751 --> 00:08:48.676
I came to realize your initials were on every cart where something went wrong.

00:08:48.676 --> 00:08:49.017
They know who?

00:08:49.017 --> 00:08:49.357
Yeah, all right.

00:08:49.357 --> 00:08:50.539
So let me explain real quick.

00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.889
When you're saying you know, you had to run, you had to run reels and you had to run carts.

00:08:53.889 --> 00:09:05.153
I mean, this is like almost, this is basically ancient history, like if you're like, let's say, uh, let's say 25 and under at this point you're listening to this, this is basically ancient technology to you.

00:09:05.153 --> 00:09:22.490
We literally had giant tape reels that we had to put down on recorders and record games and when he says a cart, a cart is essentially like a giant eight track tape and they were of obviously different lengths and you had to be able to record these things cleanly in and out.

00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:25.908
And if you couldn't do that, this was a very this really is.

00:09:25.908 --> 00:09:27.211
It's almost like being a blacksmith.

00:09:27.272 --> 00:09:31.626
In some senses right, it's a very, very skilled position and it really was an art.

00:09:31.626 --> 00:09:32.249
You it's.

00:09:32.249 --> 00:09:46.333
It's an art for a lost art form now because everyone can do it, pulling stuff from digital, but it really was an art form back then because you literally had a grease pencil, you literally had a razor and sometimes you would have to cut into reels, into these tape reels, to make these edits.

00:09:46.333 --> 00:09:50.510
It was a fun, fun time to work back then.

00:09:50.510 --> 00:09:56.870
Obviously, the lost art Business has changed, but you know, these are some of the great memories that we have from when we started our careers.

00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:08.607
So it seems like it was a rite of passage, though I mean, surely you're not going to FAN thinking I can't wait to cut tape, like I can't wait to cut tape, like I can't wait to get at that tape, man, like you're trying to get on the air, right?

00:10:08.607 --> 00:10:10.950
I mean, was that the dream at that point?

00:10:11.429 --> 00:10:11.931
It was.

00:10:11.931 --> 00:10:17.375
But you know, I had in my mind and even saw.

00:10:17.375 --> 00:10:25.047
You know, and Tushar could speak to this too you know your interns that are constantly asking about oh, when am I going to get on the air?

00:10:25.047 --> 00:10:25.609
When am I going to do that?

00:10:25.609 --> 00:10:31.447
You know, my thought is I'm there to do a job right, and the better I can do my job and show my value to the organization, you know they'll want me around.

00:10:31.447 --> 00:10:39.100
If any opportunities come in the future or I could parlay the experience and the contacts I make there to better my career, that would be.

00:10:39.100 --> 00:10:40.322
That would be fine with me.

00:10:40.322 --> 00:10:42.566
So that's, that's kind of the attitude I took when I was there.

00:10:42.566 --> 00:10:43.628
I enjoyed it, it was great.

00:10:43.628 --> 00:10:46.652
It was hard work but I never had any delusions.

00:10:46.652 --> 00:10:51.748
You'd see some of these young kids coming in and you talk about Tushar saying you wouldn't be long for the internship.

00:10:51.748 --> 00:10:56.210
I mean, if kids came in thinking they're going to be on the air, they weren't going to be long for the internship.

00:10:57.421 --> 00:11:00.528
And it's interesting because that's exactly what I want to ask you next.

00:11:00.528 --> 00:11:11.376
I think about these TV personalities who break in, who paid their dues, who started doing production and editing and all this other stuff, with a dream.

00:11:11.376 --> 00:11:18.985
But how do you cross that threshold and, like for you, you were passionate about sports growing up, but that's just one part of it.

00:11:18.985 --> 00:11:20.932
That's why you wound up in the space.

00:11:20.932 --> 00:11:23.263
But did you have a massive personality Like?

00:11:23.263 --> 00:11:33.022
What was it about you that got you to jump that wall from being an intern, a production guy, to somebody giving you a chance to take a mic?

00:11:34.746 --> 00:11:41.142
You know, I always and I still keep the attitude now of being, you know, well-rounded and well-balanced.

00:11:41.142 --> 00:11:47.807
So you know, I always in my mind, you know, thought that if I could, you know, do a little bit on air, do a little bit of.

00:11:47.807 --> 00:11:49.782
You know, I ended up doing some news reporting too.

00:11:49.782 --> 00:12:00.100
If you end up doing a lot of that different things, you're going to not only will stay current, but you'll, you'll be available, You'll be prepared for any opportunity that would come up in that space.

00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:03.423
I was lucky enough when I was in college and that's the other thing.

00:12:03.423 --> 00:12:04.582
You know, I hear kids.

00:12:04.582 --> 00:12:07.404
Well, now it's so different with digital and TV.

00:12:07.404 --> 00:12:09.645
You could do there could be five different broadcasts.

00:12:09.645 --> 00:12:18.431
But I was lucky going to Rutgers in that I was able to do games fairly early in my college career and do a lot of games.

00:12:18.431 --> 00:12:36.250
And then the play by play guy at Rutgers, Bruce Johnson, just being in circles with him, he used to listen to the student stations, especially when we did women's basketball games that the flagship couldn't do because of competition, and he liked my work, said many times hey, I think you could do this.

00:12:36.250 --> 00:12:46.522
So what I'd done was, when I was at FNN, I had a part-time job, working on air in a station in North Jersey, and then I was sending my tapes to Bruce.

00:12:46.522 --> 00:13:10.437
And then after about a year May of 99, which was a year out of school and I was doing some play-by-play too some high school play-by-play, very little, though and then I was hired down at WCTC in New Brunswick, was able to do full high school schedule, football and basketball, news reporter, sports reporter, did some talk shows and everything, and that's kind of the route I wanted to take.

00:13:10.437 --> 00:13:15.735
I did Rutgers, women's basketball, play by play, did pregame football and men's hoops.

00:13:16.317 --> 00:13:20.947
I think when I got to FAN, in my mind I was like, oh, it would be cool to be these talk show hosts.

00:13:20.947 --> 00:13:25.394
And I realized that very early on that I did not want to be a talk show host.

00:13:25.394 --> 00:13:27.244
So, as much as you know, you meet, I meet people.

00:13:27.244 --> 00:13:28.626
Now I want you to talk.

00:13:28.626 --> 00:13:30.991
I am.

00:13:30.991 --> 00:13:31.801
It's not a bad thing.

00:13:31.801 --> 00:13:33.144
It's not a bad thing or a good thing.

00:13:33.144 --> 00:13:43.610
It's just I looked at, you know, talk show hosts and I looked at what they went through and how they approached it and it was just not something I had any interest in doing, which was weird, because I thought I wanted to do that.

00:13:44.610 --> 00:13:48.822
So at what point did you say to yourself OK, I'm going to make this commitment to be a play by play guy.

00:13:50.668 --> 00:13:58.971
I think you know, I look, if you go back to when I went to college, right, so I went to college in the engineering school because I was, I was a pretty good math student in high school.

00:13:58.971 --> 00:14:02.865
And then, you know, I joined the radio station at my freshman year.

00:14:02.865 --> 00:14:10.187
And then, you know, I thought I knew a lot about sports when I was in high school and I'm like I'm gonna go to college and you know there's gonna be people that are 10 times more than me.

00:14:10.187 --> 00:14:10.950
You know it's gonna be a joke.

00:14:10.950 --> 00:14:16.000
So when I was on the radio station I realized I knew a fair amount of sports and I was.

00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:18.142
I thought I was at a chance to be pretty good.

00:14:18.142 --> 00:14:21.205
So, like the first day, I'm like I can't do engineering.

00:14:21.804 --> 00:14:24.006
So I said I want to do and I want to be play by play.

00:14:24.047 --> 00:14:25.368
I want to play by player talk show.

00:14:25.368 --> 00:14:31.732
And then, I think you know, after I graduated college, I was like you know what, like my goal?

00:14:31.732 --> 00:14:36.356
Well, in college my goal was always to be a college football and basketball play by play announcer for the school.

00:14:36.356 --> 00:14:50.129
That was my goal because I think that there's a connection in college you don't have in the pros and I think that the I think being a local broadcaster is so much better than being a national broadcaster because you become connected with a team.

00:14:50.129 --> 00:14:58.346
Now, not to say if there's national opportunities and the financial situations that come with that are something you're going to turn down, but you know, I really wanted to be.

00:14:58.346 --> 00:15:00.410
I wanted to be connected to a team.

00:15:00.410 --> 00:15:05.527
You know it's like being on a team, right, and I that was really important to me to pursue that.

00:15:06.649 --> 00:15:10.355
So you come out of Rutgers, how did you pursue your next step?

00:15:10.355 --> 00:15:12.504
Like you said, you did Rutgers women's basketball.

00:15:12.504 --> 00:15:13.687
You, you're doing a lot of stuff.

00:15:13.687 --> 00:15:15.392
Are these people you know?

00:15:15.392 --> 00:15:19.850
Are they you sending a tape and they're calling you in for your audition?

00:15:19.850 --> 00:15:20.572
How does that work?

00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:30.543
So I just thought, hey, you know my my goal when I graduated and I was sending tapes down to WCTC in New Brunswick was that you know what my goal is?

00:15:30.543 --> 00:15:32.970
I'm going to get a job at WCTC.

00:15:32.970 --> 00:15:36.570
I'm going to work there for 15, 20 years.

00:15:36.570 --> 00:15:39.688
When Bruce Johnson retires, I'll become the play-by-play voice of Rutgers.

00:15:39.688 --> 00:15:40.730
That was in my mind.

00:15:40.730 --> 00:15:42.365
That's what was going to happen.

00:15:42.365 --> 00:15:43.625
That was going to be my life.

00:15:43.625 --> 00:15:45.381
In my mind, that's what was going to happen.

00:15:45.381 --> 00:15:46.384
That was going to be my life.

00:15:46.424 --> 00:15:48.328
You know, I was intern at FAN, working part time there.

00:15:48.328 --> 00:15:52.364
I'm hired down at WCTC I know that's the job I wanted was the Rutgers play by play job.

00:15:52.364 --> 00:15:55.510
I thought I'd be the best at it and that's what I wanted.

00:15:55.510 --> 00:16:01.005
You know things, things go a little differently and it ended up being you know in how it is now.

00:16:01.005 --> 00:16:02.067
You know 10 times better.

00:16:02.067 --> 00:16:04.471
But that was when you say, like, what I wanted to be, that's.

00:16:04.471 --> 00:16:06.452
That was just focused in my mind.

00:16:06.452 --> 00:16:07.114
I was going to go to.

00:16:07.114 --> 00:16:16.003
I was going to go down to WCTC, work under Bruce for however many years he had left doing it, and then I was going to become the guy.

00:16:16.003 --> 00:16:18.846
And that was probably what I thought and that's what I, that was my, that was my end goal, all right.

00:16:18.865 --> 00:16:20.106
So how long were you over at CTC?

00:16:20.488 --> 00:16:22.509
Five years, so 2004,.

00:16:22.509 --> 00:16:27.394
I, well, there was and there was some changeover on the radio crew down there when I was there.

00:16:27.394 --> 00:16:31.120
Bruce then was out, they replaced them, you know, new, new crew and everything.

00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:37.352
And I kind of knew that if I had to, I I felt I could do, play by play, do it at a high level.

00:16:37.352 --> 00:17:04.042
So I knew that if, if I was going to move up, it was not going to be there, right, I'd have to leave, which was it ended up turning out so amazing and um in 04, a job had opened up at army, a director of broadcasting job where it was going to be sidelines for football coaches, show for football and play-by-play for men's and women's basketball, along with um, you know, some like sales assistant duties and um in um the external area and that kind of stuff.

00:17:04.042 --> 00:17:07.265
And, and I, actually the job was open in 2001.

00:17:07.265 --> 00:17:08.788
Um got involved late in the search.

00:17:08.788 --> 00:17:14.351
Again, this is before like the internet when you're looking for jobs right, you have people telling you, so you're still sending out letters.

00:17:16.521 --> 00:17:21.288
So no one got involved late, got involved late in the search, you know, and did not get the job.

00:17:21.288 --> 00:17:22.671
Um, but waited my time.

00:17:22.691 --> 00:17:24.354
You know, hey, look, I'm.

00:17:24.354 --> 00:17:25.536
I'm a big believer.

00:17:25.536 --> 00:17:36.772
You know, when I give advice to kids like I'm all about playing the long game with everything, so involved in the job at 01, didn't get the job, kept in touch with the folks there.

00:17:36.772 --> 00:17:47.881
I mean when they tell you when you don't get the job and they're like, keep in touch, you know I'll hold, I'll hold someone to that until they tell me not to Right People.

00:17:47.881 --> 00:17:48.544
You know I'll hold, I'll hold someone to that until they tell me not to right.

00:17:48.544 --> 00:17:49.362
You know people say, keep in touch whether it's, whether it's serious or not.

00:17:49.362 --> 00:17:49.789
So I kept in touch.

00:17:49.789 --> 00:17:51.087
You know, every six months I'd send them a letter, send an email.

00:17:51.087 --> 00:17:58.032
Hey, you know, if there's any opportunities and opportunities, I get a call in January of 04 saying hey, we're, there's going to be, we're, we're making a change.

00:17:58.032 --> 00:17:59.233
You know the job's open.

00:17:59.233 --> 00:17:59.973
Would you be?

00:17:59.973 --> 00:18:00.595
You'd be interested?

00:18:00.595 --> 00:18:03.056
And I said absolutely Interviewed down there.

00:18:03.096 --> 00:18:08.837
The day St Joe's lost its first game of the 03-04 season quarterfinals of the A-10 tournament.

00:18:08.837 --> 00:18:13.026
That was my interview day at Arlington and then I got the job.

00:18:13.026 --> 00:18:14.327
That's been great, it's perfect.

00:18:14.327 --> 00:18:16.732
I couldn't ask for more.

00:18:16.732 --> 00:18:18.922
It's really the best place to be.

00:18:19.323 --> 00:18:27.602
So before we dig into that and I want to spend a lot of time on that I'm curious about the process of getting good.

00:18:27.602 --> 00:18:36.790
So you know you want to get as many reps as you can, you want to be in front of the mic as often as possible, but are there other tricks of the trade Meaning?

00:18:36.790 --> 00:18:38.601
You know, how are you prepping?

00:18:38.601 --> 00:18:39.981
How are you preparing?

00:18:39.981 --> 00:18:44.865
Were there people that you looked up to who taught you this craft?

00:18:44.865 --> 00:18:46.007
Like, how do you learn it?

00:18:47.028 --> 00:18:52.992
It's a great question and so I was really lucky when I was at Rutgers and WRSU.

00:18:52.992 --> 00:19:03.509
You know we had a great group of broadcasters who were older than me and when you start doing games you know how kind of the rite of passage would be is like when you were a younger person.

00:19:03.509 --> 00:19:08.469
I think my first game when I was a sophomore right, army Rutgers played Navy of all teams.

00:19:08.469 --> 00:19:21.991
You know you would spend some time week of the game with the other person you were doing it with to kind of prepare together and a young person would do it with an older person and I saw how, like, they drew out their charts and yeah, and and prepped and everything.

00:19:21.991 --> 00:19:29.529
And then I like to take things from different places, right, so that was one way I prepared and everything.

00:19:31.122 --> 00:19:35.339
I think I got to a point where I'm over preparing.

00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:44.731
It's a that's a terrible word to use, right, but I think that you know, because I believe, right, the Dick Enberg thing, right, I'm only going to use 30 percent of what I prep, but I don't know what 30%.

00:19:44.731 --> 00:19:45.913
It is Interesting.

00:19:45.913 --> 00:19:56.067
So I believe in that, I believe in a ton of prep, I believe in a lot of reading and I just tried to every year and every season do a little bit more than I was the year before.

00:19:56.067 --> 00:19:56.381
So when?

00:19:56.401 --> 00:20:02.119
I started doing high school, right, I was like I prepped one way and 1999 or 2000.

00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:09.865
Then the next year I said you know what I want to add in when I talk to the coaches to get one little tidbit about each player off the field that I can use.

00:20:09.865 --> 00:20:15.748
Okay, this next year I want to be able to add in the specialist I'm just making stuff up here.

00:20:15.748 --> 00:20:24.198
I tried to add one new thing each year that I, just from my observation and perception, I think would help me.

00:20:24.198 --> 00:20:26.825
I tried to do that at Army.

00:20:26.825 --> 00:20:44.708
I still try to do it now, and when I got the Army play-by-play job Bob Soce, who's a very good friend he's the New England Patriots play-by-play guy and he had been the Navy play-by-play guy for several years and I'd gotten to know him a little bit he shared with me his charts, the digital of his.

00:20:44.708 --> 00:20:49.104
So I've really I've been using Bob's since 2010.

00:20:49.104 --> 00:20:57.868
But I've made my own little changes to them, added stuff in and you know, I think it comes down to because I always say, like for the home team, right for Army, right.

00:20:57.868 --> 00:21:00.442
I mean, in theory, I'm prepping all year for them.

00:21:00.694 --> 00:21:03.325
The whole week of the game isn't preparing Army.

00:21:03.325 --> 00:21:06.521
The whole week of the game is preparing the opponent, right, because that's the barrier.

00:21:06.521 --> 00:21:22.839
So you build out the opponent, you know, on like a Saturday night or Sunday, right, I'll update my army charts with stats and I'll call them tidbits from the previous game and add to my bios on my boards and then I'll try to build out the two deep of the opponent.

00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:26.067
If I don't have their game notes, I'll use the previous game notes and build out their two deep.

00:21:26.067 --> 00:22:10.563
Then I'll go through all their stats, update them with all stats, all personal information, and then I start tearing into probably Monday or Tuesday, start tearing into newspaper articles about the team, their biggest players, like feature stories, and when you play some teams out of some of the conferences that Army's played whether's the sunbelt conference or conference usa, a lot of times it's it's there's not a ton of of information, um, and then I'll, just as the as the week goes on, just update information I can get, usually trying to talk with their play-by-play announcer, um, and then I try to watch their previous games, which has become so easy now with espn plus and youtube is even better because I mean, I know some of these sites get shut down, but basically any game that was on TV.

00:22:10.583 --> 00:22:17.542
The previous week is on YouTube without any commercials, so you can find those and then you know we have our coaches.

00:22:17.542 --> 00:22:35.261
I'll be at practice doing interviews one night, coach a show Thursday night, that I like to set some time with the opposing team SID day of the game and I really take, I learn a lot from our color guy, an army, dean Darling, who's been doing this 40 something years and he's also the Marist basketball play by play guy he's.

00:22:35.261 --> 00:22:40.460
He's the most prepared person I've ever worked with, so I've really tried to absorb so much from him.

00:22:40.760 --> 00:22:45.115
So that's really what I that's what my week kind of looks like during football from him.

00:22:45.115 --> 00:22:46.961
So that's really what I, that's what my week kind of looks like during football.

00:22:46.961 --> 00:22:50.493
All right, so you've, you've taught yourself, obviously, how to prep, almost as if you're going to class.

00:22:50.493 --> 00:22:51.557
You're going to another class.

00:22:51.557 --> 00:22:56.414
Um, did coaches take notice of this over the years when you were in school?

00:22:56.414 --> 00:22:59.281
Like, did they say rich, why you seem really prepared?

00:22:59.281 --> 00:23:03.759
You know, were you looked upon as not simply a student but more like an actual member of the media?

00:23:04.219 --> 00:23:12.790
it's good, it's that's a really good question because I built a good relationship with Terry Shea, who was the Rutgers coach for five years, from 1996 to 2000.

00:23:12.790 --> 00:23:20.836
And when I was in college he made a lot of would say a lot of things like that to me, like, hey, you do a really good job, you know it's right that I can do with you.

00:23:20.836 --> 00:23:27.008
He had written letters of recommendation for me for for an internship I had, which he volunteered to write.

00:23:27.008 --> 00:23:41.007
So, yeah, I think that I think with the sports information office at Rutgers probably took a little notice too that I was, you know, prepared and doing it for the right reasons, but a lot of us were.

00:23:41.007 --> 00:23:42.390
We're doing a really good job.

00:23:42.390 --> 00:23:44.354
I mean, it was a really good student media group that I was with.

00:23:44.354 --> 00:23:48.480
But yeah, I mean, and then those are little things that you know you don't think of at the time, but those are probably things that encouraged me.

00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.547
You know that was like, hey, you know what, maybe I can do this.

00:23:51.547 --> 00:23:56.876
You know, hey, this person believes in me, this person is, you know, giving me, you know, more time than they need to.

00:23:56.876 --> 00:23:59.538
So it all adds up right how you treat people.

00:23:59.538 --> 00:24:02.499
Remember, it's not what you did, it's how you make people feel.

00:24:02.499 --> 00:24:09.842
So, you know, people made me feel like I could do it, whether it was, you know, subliminally or you know, it was obvious and it wore off.

00:24:10.163 --> 00:24:13.983
Putting the sports aside, I mean West Point in and of itself.

00:24:13.983 --> 00:24:19.126
I mean talk about the environment, the people you talked about, the history there, that I mean.

00:24:19.126 --> 00:24:27.470
That had to be a real learning curve for you to get busy and figure out how you were going to fit into the mesh of of what is an institution.

00:24:27.470 --> 00:24:29.611
How did that go for you?

00:24:29.611 --> 00:24:30.832
Was it overwhelming?

00:24:30.832 --> 00:24:33.913
I mean talk about West Point itself and how amazing it is.

00:24:37.714 --> 00:24:37.815
It's.

00:24:37.815 --> 00:24:38.737
You know it's the greatest place, right.

00:24:38.737 --> 00:24:40.039
You go into work and there's people on buses taking tours, right.

00:24:40.039 --> 00:24:40.200
So it's.

00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:42.825
I mean, I get paid to come up here, right, and people are paid to come here.

00:24:42.825 --> 00:24:53.229
I always think about that, but it's like you know, it's interesting because I've read a lot of stories and I'm really into the whole.

00:24:53.229 --> 00:25:00.416
I don't know if it's a subculture, but you know, play-by-play announcers like their road, where they're from, at the schools that they do.

00:25:00.416 --> 00:25:05.142
I mean Eli Gold's from New York City, right, and he's the voice of Alabama in the deep South, right.

00:25:05.142 --> 00:25:24.483
So I, you know, I looked at it and I think so much is having the respect and the really the respect of the fan base, and I'm very sensitive to that and that that could really turn on a play by play guy or anyone associated with the team.

00:25:24.483 --> 00:25:31.397
So I'm very, you know, I'm just being very clear to like you know know what I don't know, you know don't know what I don't know.

00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:36.144
You know and I'd be able to tell people, you know, always looking to learn, not looking to overstep.

00:25:36.144 --> 00:25:51.140
You know where I am or what I should be entitled to or anything, and just learn and just ask questions and just get to know people and, you know, show them that I'm there to help and that you know.

00:25:51.140 --> 00:25:52.886
You know the goal of me is just to be the best I could do and the best for the Academy.

00:25:52.886 --> 00:26:04.244
So I really took that when I went to Army because it was a ton of learning for me and, you know, I think over the course of time, you know, I've built a relationship with the fan base and the team and that means a lot to me.

00:26:04.984 --> 00:26:11.092
Looking beyond the fan base, um, you know what is your role within that community.

00:26:11.092 --> 00:26:18.188
You know, obviously West Point is one of the the the more important and more prestigious.

00:26:18.188 --> 00:26:25.911
Um, or whatever word I'm looking for, organizations, parts of our country.

00:26:25.971 --> 00:26:27.494
Military institutions Institutions.

00:26:28.416 --> 00:26:32.386
What is your relationship with the generals, the military?

00:26:32.386 --> 00:26:39.326
Because that's a community, that's a culture, I mean, that transcends normal fandom.

00:26:40.154 --> 00:26:43.012
How much do you actually interact with that type of higher rank?

00:26:43.012 --> 00:26:43.701
Oh yeah, how much do you?

00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:45.042
actually do you actually interact with that type of higher rank?

00:26:45.042 --> 00:26:50.450
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean, I mean the, the lieutenant general who, who is the superintendent of West Point, steve Gilland.

00:26:50.450 --> 00:26:55.425
He is amazing, I know him pretty well and he'll always come over and say hi.

00:26:55.425 --> 00:27:02.625
I interviewed him several times and you know I can just tell it makes me feel like I'm someone.

00:27:02.625 --> 00:27:15.655
You know he likes to be around and is positive for the program and is a and is, and that makes me feel great, right, that's, that's why that's why you do it, right, you want it, you want to feel included, you want to feel like you're, you're part of what's going on.

00:27:15.936 --> 00:27:18.202
And I've been very, very, very fortunate.

00:27:18.202 --> 00:27:20.696
You know all the generals that have passed through West Point.

00:27:20.696 --> 00:27:23.844
I've had a really, really good relationships with.

00:27:23.844 --> 00:27:26.936
You know Darrell Williams, bob Caslin.

00:27:26.936 --> 00:27:34.163
You know they've been, they've been nothing but amazing to me and and I think it's, you know, I'd like to think it has to do with me doing a good job.

00:27:34.163 --> 00:27:42.459
And you know they're and they're very appreciative and I'm appreciative of them for all that they do and what they've sacrificed and done serving our country.

00:27:42.618 --> 00:28:09.090
Now, you know, running this great institution if there are difference and obviously the there's a hit, a huge historical portion to um, to army, uh, to west point, uh, you know, dating back to the beginnings of this country, um, is there a big difference when you head to the campuses of Navy down in Annapolis or you head to Air Force out in Colorado?

00:28:09.090 --> 00:28:22.990
Is there just a different atmosphere, whether it be on the collegiate front, or just a different atmosphere overall, when you head to these places rather than going to, let's say, louisville or Cincinnati or Notre Dame?

00:28:25.836 --> 00:28:27.522
than going to, let's say, louisville or Cincinnati or Notre Dame.

00:28:27.522 --> 00:28:30.674
I think the you know it's interesting, you say that because each of the academies has its own, its own personality.

00:28:30.674 --> 00:28:38.785
Right, west Point, and it's the history, right, it's the granite, it's, you know, on these, you know on that, on the grounds of West Point.

00:28:38.785 --> 00:28:43.278
I mean, so much happened in the American Revolution, right, and it was you know.

00:28:43.278 --> 00:28:47.344
So I think that when you're at West Point it's really the true history lesson.

00:28:47.364 --> 00:28:51.329
You know Navy has Annapolis, they're by the water.

00:28:51.329 --> 00:28:53.961
There's a whole different vibe down there.

00:28:53.961 --> 00:29:10.925
I think the one thing, a big difference with Navy is you know that's not a military installation, that's just the academy down there where you know West Point, there are soldiers that are stationed at West Point, right, so it's a bigger community, at least on the grounds.

00:29:10.925 --> 00:29:16.726
Then you go out to Air Force and you know it's the range, as they say, right, and it's what's it.

00:29:16.726 --> 00:29:25.067
West Point is post, the, annapolis is the yard and Air Force is the range and it's you know it's a lot more spread out.

00:29:25.067 --> 00:29:26.537
Obviously, you know you drive around there.

00:29:26.537 --> 00:29:34.564
Just amazes me, when you go from the football stadium to the, to the academic buildings, it's like there's just nothing there.

00:29:34.564 --> 00:29:48.542
As you're driving, for obvious reasons, you know they're flying planes over a lot of that and it's, and that's really more of a, that's more of like a pro sports area of the three Right, because when you're in Colorado.

00:29:48.563 --> 00:29:51.134
Springs you know, you're what you're, an hour down to Denver.

00:29:51.134 --> 00:30:00.775
There's a very, there's a very pro sports vibe, at least I feel when I'm out there, where you know, aside from you know, annapolis and West Point.

00:30:00.775 --> 00:30:07.368
But each each has their own personality and their and their own kind of feeling and culture.

00:30:08.836 --> 00:30:13.624
When you are calling a game for Army and.

00:30:13.624 --> 00:30:20.038
I imagine there is a parallel to being the play-by-play guy for the New York Yankees.

00:30:20.038 --> 00:30:25.124
Is there a bias in a way?

00:30:25.124 --> 00:30:37.327
If you're, you know, calling one team all the time and you're putting their story forward, Do you feel any pressure to present the story in a particular way?

00:30:38.934 --> 00:30:39.635
It's a good question.

00:30:39.635 --> 00:30:46.307
I feel a responsibility to you know, tell the army story right of, of the army players.

00:30:46.307 --> 00:31:03.198
I also feel a responsibility to tell the opposing team story right, because really anyone, anyone could call a game and only know one team right, the team that they cover, and I'm not going to name names, but I've been, you know, we've done games talking to the other play-by-play announcers, so they have zero prep.

00:31:03.198 --> 00:31:12.446
Yeah, on army, and that goes back to just my own personal research of listening and seeing what I wanted to be when I was a play-by-play announcer.

00:31:13.056 --> 00:31:20.144
I didn't want to be one of these announcers that says we all the time and us, and is just very one-sided right.

00:31:20.144 --> 00:31:33.990
I wanted to bring as much because I think I owe it to the listeners right to be as prepared for Army as I am for the opponent, whether it's Navy, air Force, ball State, utsa and really call it down the middle.

00:31:33.990 --> 00:31:38.946
So anyone who turns on can hear, can listen, can maybe learn a little bit.

00:31:38.946 --> 00:31:44.482
And you know, of course I'm going to get more excited when Army scores than the opponent scores.

00:31:44.482 --> 00:31:45.423
But I don't want.

00:31:45.423 --> 00:32:00.287
I mean the best, the best compliment would be if someone turned it off saying you know what it was a listenable broadcast, because it wasn't one side and I could hear everything the way it was going on, but it was an Army broadcast, and that's probably what I'm striving for each time we go out to a game.

00:32:01.234 --> 00:32:03.618
I almost hate to ask this, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

00:32:03.618 --> 00:32:06.001
You ever make an on-air mistake.

00:32:06.001 --> 00:32:08.365
I mean it's part of the learning process, right?

00:32:08.365 --> 00:32:09.807
All the time.

00:32:09.826 --> 00:32:11.970
Haven't you listened to any of his?

00:32:12.009 --> 00:32:12.691
broadcasts.

00:32:12.691 --> 00:32:14.885
Exactly what time did he start today?

00:32:14.885 --> 00:32:15.371
He started his breath.

00:32:15.371 --> 00:32:15.674
I mean, come on.

00:32:16.416 --> 00:32:17.473
So what's the general rule?

00:32:17.473 --> 00:32:19.801
Do you acknowledge it or do you let it go?

00:32:19.801 --> 00:32:20.625
What is your general?

00:32:26.055 --> 00:32:27.578
I sometimes hear it just don't correct them, just keep moving right.

00:32:27.578 --> 00:32:28.201
I I always I always correct it.

00:32:28.201 --> 00:32:29.704
Um, or I'll say it, you know the right way.

00:32:30.145 --> 00:32:41.987
Like soon after you know, I mean let's say oh I you know, I listen to a lot of people and I and you know, and so like I'm like I say, like I'm sorry it's this guy say I, you know, you know too sure the carry, oh no, larry with the carry.

00:32:41.987 --> 00:32:46.883
You know, and you know subliminally correct that we don't need to like waste words by like apologizing.

00:32:46.883 --> 00:32:49.847
I don't think it's as great a mistake as that.

00:32:49.847 --> 00:32:52.438
But oh yeah, you have to, you have to correct it.

00:32:52.438 --> 00:32:53.580
I mean no one's perfect.

00:32:53.580 --> 00:32:54.624
I mean come on.

00:32:54.683 --> 00:33:01.587
Is there a moment that you look back on where you're like, oh yeah, yeah, that was a bad one like what's, what's your favorite mistake?

00:33:02.818 --> 00:33:03.540
that's a good one.

00:33:03.721 --> 00:33:15.561
That's a good one, um we always remember the bad, even in college, like something that you just totally blew and you were embarrassed afterwards and you're like oh boy yeah, good one.

00:33:15.623 --> 00:33:17.006
I mean, there's so many to choose from.

00:33:17.066 --> 00:33:34.000
I'm trying to narrow it down you know what I uh, you know, there's always a couple where I like get the fumble recovery wrong because I'll be, so, you know, quick and I'll see only like one number of the guy and those really, really bother me.

00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:35.645
I'm trying to think there was OK.

00:33:35.645 --> 00:33:44.500
There was one time 2010, my first year doing the football play by play, I Duke's quarterback.

00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:57.262
I forget who Duke's quarterback was, but when they get in close they would bring in a Brandon Cunette who was the backup and he would run, and I didn't check that he had come in the game and I said the other quarterback scored the touchdown.

00:33:58.036 --> 00:34:00.623
And it was really Cunette and I was like oh, it's Cunette who scored.

00:34:00.623 --> 00:34:01.105
I forget who.

00:34:01.105 --> 00:34:01.855
The starter for Duke.

00:34:01.875 --> 00:34:10.626
But the backup was Cunette, who I think I wore number like 18 or something, and I said that the starter scored the touchdown like on a bootleg run, which wasn't good.

00:34:10.885 --> 00:34:11.327
It happens.

00:34:11.827 --> 00:34:12.748
It happens Could have been worse.

00:34:12.748 --> 00:34:15.190
Could have been worse, I could do that, larry could do that.

00:34:16.096 --> 00:34:18.483
How many Commander's Cups have you called at this point?

00:34:19.235 --> 00:34:23.077
So it took Army a while to win that Commander of Chiefs trophy.

00:34:23.077 --> 00:34:26.300
So they'd won it in 96, didn't win it again until 2017.

00:34:26.300 --> 00:34:37.487
So I've been lucky enough to call 2017, 2018, 2020 during the COVID year and this past year when Army won it for the fourth time under Jeff Munkin.

00:34:37.646 --> 00:34:40.929
So obviously the president's supposed to come to these games.

00:34:40.929 --> 00:34:42.469
This doesn't happen anywhere.

00:34:42.469 --> 00:34:45.192
It doesn't happen at the Iron Bowl, it doesn't happen at the Red River game.

00:34:45.192 --> 00:34:46.572
Once again, this is about history.

00:34:46.572 --> 00:34:52.318
What is that atmosphere like when you're calling and you know we'll get eventually to the idea?

00:34:52.318 --> 00:35:00.380
Because I kind of want to get back to something you had said originally, which was you know why you like college over the pros, and I want to get back to that.

00:35:00.380 --> 00:35:02.382
But I also want to touch on this.

00:35:02.382 --> 00:35:07.170
Like you know, you call very unique games, right, you call very unique games, right.

00:35:07.170 --> 00:35:15.106
There are very few games, very, very few games out there which have the amount of history that you call Army-Navy, army-air Force, but the Commander's Cup game.

00:35:15.106 --> 00:35:18.204
The President of the United States comes to this game.

00:35:18.204 --> 00:35:22.523
A couple things One, what is that like?

00:35:22.523 --> 00:35:25.945
Two, does Secret Service contact you ahead of time?

00:35:25.945 --> 00:35:28.762
And then three, pardon me.

00:35:28.762 --> 00:35:31.925
And then three have you met any of the presidents?

00:35:32.536 --> 00:35:33.621
I have not met.

00:35:33.621 --> 00:35:35.161
I've come close to the presidents.

00:35:35.161 --> 00:35:39.798
Actually, the one that I met, well sort of, was so 2004,.

00:35:39.798 --> 00:35:43.166
My first year with Army.

00:35:43.166 --> 00:35:47.920
I'm sideline reporter for Army Navy and we actually changed some internal rules because of me.

00:35:48.440 --> 00:35:56.143
So I would out for the coin toss, right with my microphone and everything and I, you know, yeah, hey, you got to get the sound for the coin toss, right.

00:35:56.143 --> 00:36:05.422
So I end up next to um the official and george bush is there, right, so he comes out and everything.

00:36:05.422 --> 00:36:28.568
So there's like, if you wait, w or Herbert Walker, w, so I'm out there next to the referee and then Bush comes out and there's like these if you watch, like on CBS TV, and even my, my voice came over the referee mic because I was so close there was like a great TV shot of like me, the referee and Bush.

00:36:28.568 --> 00:36:31.034
There was like a great TV shot of like me, the referee and Bush.

00:36:31.034 --> 00:36:37.186
And then I think it was like so I basically photo bombed all of the great photos we wanted of the coin toss.

00:36:37.186 --> 00:36:39.936
So I think now they, they, they, they protect the area, they sequester it.

00:36:39.936 --> 00:36:42.706
We're only like a couple of photographers are are inside.

00:36:42.775 --> 00:36:46.996
But here's another present story because of Rick DeMarco, because of me, because of me.

00:36:47.036 --> 00:36:51.721
Because of me, the 2016 game.

00:36:51.721 --> 00:36:55.403
Right, donald Trump had been elected, but he had not yet taken office.

00:36:55.403 --> 00:36:57.365
He was the president-elect, but he came to the Army-Navy game.

00:36:57.365 --> 00:37:02.791
That's when Army broke the streak they had lost 14 in a row against Navy and that game was played at M&T Bank Stadium.

00:37:02.791 --> 00:37:23.699
So this is a really good one.

00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:31.150
So when you go in the press box at M&T Bank Stadium, you go in the entrance hard to explain like you go in the entrance and you have to cross the area that's like the entrance to then go to the bathroom or whatever.

00:37:31.150 --> 00:37:37.788
So Trump came in at halftime to go on, I think in the third quarter of that game on TV, which was the booth like next to us.

00:37:37.788 --> 00:37:47.141
So I had gone to the bathroom early at halftime, gotten back, the Secret Service came in about midway through halftime and created a wall.

00:37:47.141 --> 00:37:49.202
And the Secret Service came in about midway through halftime and created a wall.

00:37:49.202 --> 00:37:58.759
So if you had gone to that half of the press box, you couldn't get back to the broadcast booth, oh geez.

00:37:58.759 --> 00:37:59.579
So I remember getting back.

00:37:59.659 --> 00:38:01.440
I'm like, oh my gosh, and I think there were a couple.

00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:02.202
You know there's all the.

00:38:02.202 --> 00:38:04.463
You know it's Army Radio, navy Radio.

00:38:04.463 --> 00:38:07.487
You know the Cadet Radio, midshipman radio, westwood One, everything.

00:38:07.487 --> 00:38:19.905
I mean there had to be someone, because there were people saying I need to get through and they're like, no, you can't get through and I'm like man if I got to the bathroom three minutes later.

00:38:19.925 --> 00:38:21.351
I wouldn't even get back to the room.

00:38:29.394 --> 00:38:30.824
Someone would have to pinch, hit and call the game.

00:38:30.824 --> 00:38:31.166
I guess so at that moment.

00:38:31.094 --> 00:38:31.215
Rich.

00:38:31.144 --> 00:38:31.925
DeMarco was the only person in America calling the.

00:38:31.855 --> 00:38:32.096
Commander.

00:38:32.025 --> 00:38:33.817
Cup game Under the protection of security Across the world.

00:38:33.817 --> 00:38:39.867
I mean, they just they cut and it's just an awkward and I think, look, I think that stadium's probably gone through a bunch of renovations now.

00:38:39.867 --> 00:38:47.911
But it was just funny because basically it was like a line, you know, they just they'd created this like wall that you couldn't get through.

00:38:47.911 --> 00:38:49.340
So I was, that was kind of funny.

00:38:49.340 --> 00:38:52.063
That's a that's an interesting presidential moment.

00:38:52.615 --> 00:38:55.324
So I mean it's safe to say you're kind of living your dream.

00:38:55.324 --> 00:39:01.686
Is that true to say so, I mean, when you live your dream and that's your profession, like, what do you dream about?

00:39:01.686 --> 00:39:03.181
This guy is there's nothing left.

00:39:03.494 --> 00:39:04.681
You live in what I dream about.

00:39:04.681 --> 00:39:09.059
I I'll tell you what I dream about.

00:39:09.059 --> 00:39:12.034
I dream about being the play-by-play announcer for Army men's basketball's first ever NCAA tournament.

00:39:15.483 --> 00:39:16.025
There were five.

00:39:16.554 --> 00:39:19.585
My dad's alma mater, st Francis, new York, got rid of athletics.

00:39:19.585 --> 00:39:26.324
So there's now four teams that have had basketball since 1939, when the first tournament was held, and have not made the tournament.

00:39:26.324 --> 00:39:28.902
And I want to be the.

00:39:28.902 --> 00:39:31.704
I want to be the play-by-play guy pretty good.

00:39:32.166 --> 00:39:32.809
I will tell you this.

00:39:32.809 --> 00:39:37.382
You might want to keep dreaming armies won three in a row.

00:39:38.003 --> 00:39:38.905
What is life without?

00:39:38.905 --> 00:39:45.202
Hope true enough true enough, freshman uh, so rich.

00:39:45.563 --> 00:39:54.496
Um, it's rare when anyone in your position has longevity in any in in any position like this.

00:39:54.496 --> 00:39:58.072
Right, so you know it to be the to be the yankees play-by-play guy.

00:39:58.072 --> 00:40:02.748
Right, you know, for for most of us out there, we know john sterling is longtime voice of the yankees.

00:40:02.748 --> 00:40:05.115
Um, you don't start out.

00:40:05.115 --> 00:40:10.978
Your first job, your first or even your second job, is not the yankee job, it's some other job somewhere else.

00:40:10.978 --> 00:40:18.318
But for you, your second job out of out of college has been essentially your career.

00:40:18.318 --> 00:40:19.902
What's that like?

00:40:19.902 --> 00:40:21.686
It means you have a very unique spot.

00:40:21.686 --> 00:40:23.476
No one does what you do.

00:40:23.476 --> 00:40:26.126
You have had a tremendous amount of longevity.

00:40:26.909 --> 00:40:29.141
I just try to, you know, do the best every day, right.

00:40:29.141 --> 00:40:30.188
You know you're gonna have your good days.

00:40:30.188 --> 00:40:30.913
You have your bad days.

00:40:30.913 --> 00:40:31.856
You're gonna make mistakes.

00:40:31.856 --> 00:40:37.099
You're gonna, you know, learn from them and everything and just, uh, just just keep, just keep pushing forward.

00:40:37.099 --> 00:40:43.157
I, you know, I think I, you know, the the best years of my life have been when I've been working at west.

00:40:43.297 --> 00:40:46.583
I was married at west point in 2008.

00:40:46.583 --> 00:40:49.608
My kids are lucky enough to enjoy games.

00:40:49.608 --> 00:40:51.541
One of them is a huge sports fan.

00:40:51.541 --> 00:40:54.284
He's able to come up to basketball games, interact with the team.

00:40:54.284 --> 00:40:55.641
They treat him really, really well.

00:40:55.641 --> 00:40:57.420
Football team treats him awesome.

00:40:57.420 --> 00:41:07.188
So it's living your life and just enjoying all of that in the backdrop of what you do.

00:41:07.188 --> 00:41:24.264
And that's why it's very, very hard for me to picture leaving, because I'm not, I'm not sure, you know, you go back to all those things right Of being accepted by a fan base, of, you know, being a part of a team the kind of, you know, reach and respect that you have, being in a place like West Point.

00:41:24.264 --> 00:41:31.105
When you mix all that up and you consider all that, it's hard to picture being anywhere else.

00:41:31.795 --> 00:41:31.976
All right.

00:41:31.976 --> 00:41:38.856
So you mentioned a moment ago that the notion of that you wanted to be a collegiate play-by-play guy rather than a professional, why I?

00:41:38.896 --> 00:41:42.266
just feel there's so much passion with college sports, so much more passion.

00:41:42.266 --> 00:42:02.771
You know, there's a couple of things so like if I, if I I I'm a big New York Jets fan if I decorated a room I'm 47 years old, if I decorated a room in my house just for the New York Jets, right, people would think there's something wrong with me, even more so than they think now, right.

00:42:12.135 --> 00:42:15.980
But if I were to decorate it for a college football program or something, a school I went to a school I was a part of part of school I worked at, people would think that's cool right, there's there's a passion there that's not there with I don't know.

00:42:15.907 --> 00:42:17.106
Here's the other one too.

00:42:17.106 --> 00:42:17.481
I was thinking this one, right.

00:42:17.481 --> 00:42:23.628
So from nfl to college football, right, here's, here's how I, here's another um, here's another one, and then I'll give you a third.

00:42:23.628 --> 00:42:33.762
So, like I look at NFL, like watching a movie, right, where you know what your attention is there for that whole movie.

00:42:33.762 --> 00:42:35.916
You're waiting for that movie to come out.

00:42:35.916 --> 00:42:41.079
It's going to be appointment watching for you when you watch it and then you know what you're going to move on after it.

00:42:41.541 --> 00:42:50.277
Or I think of college football, like your favorite television show, where you're waiting, each week there's buildup, you're thinking about it every day.

00:42:50.619 --> 00:42:55.838
There's a passion, you're looking forward to it and I think that college football has that longevity.

00:42:55.838 --> 00:43:13.820
I'm not saying a great TV show is better than a great movie or vice versa, but I think the TV show you live, you know the TV show every day you're thinking about that next episode, you want to see where it goes, you're invested in the characters where I think the movie, the movie is going to get more people watching it.

00:43:13.820 --> 00:43:30.393
Right, but you're going to watch it and then you're going to kind of move on and watch it when it's on, whenever, the next time, whenever that is, and I feel like you know, that, to me, is how I feel about college sports as opposed to pro sports, for me at least.

00:43:30.393 --> 00:43:42.909
And I think the other thing is look and I've said this for years when you're a play-by-play guy, the greatest compliment you can get is if someone wasn't able to be at a game and they had a listening on the radio.

00:43:43.054 --> 00:43:48.159
They were forced to listen on the radio and they come up and say hey, you know what man, they'll see it like an event.

00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:50.585
Hey, you know, that game I couldn't be at.

00:43:50.585 --> 00:43:53.164
You know, I was listening to, you, were great, you took me through the game.

00:43:53.164 --> 00:43:56.264
That's like the friggin best, that's the best compliment you're going to get Right.

00:43:56.264 --> 00:44:05.045
But when I get emails from guys in Germany you know guys that come back after serving overseas, they're stationed to us and be like hey, you know, when I was deployed we used to listen to you all the time.

00:44:05.045 --> 00:44:09.510
You know that that can't get beat, at least to me.

00:44:09.510 --> 00:44:11.994
I mean, I don't know how you can beat that, that kind of thing.

00:44:12.474 --> 00:44:12.735
All right.

00:44:12.735 --> 00:44:23.543
So my final question here will be let's say, tomorrow, alabama or Michigan UCLA, come knocking on the door and say you know what?

00:44:23.543 --> 00:44:25.481
We want you to be our play-by-play guy.

00:44:25.481 --> 00:44:26.023
What would you say?

00:44:29.115 --> 00:44:33.387
I don't know if I could get a better situation than I'm in now, personally and professionally.

00:44:33.387 --> 00:44:51.474
So sure if someone called me and was able to sell me that it was going to be a better situation to work with kids and a department that is going to be as good to me as Army is and my family, sure, but I can't see that happening.

00:44:51.494 --> 00:44:53.842
Wow, very, very, very lucky.

00:44:53.842 --> 00:44:55.181
Not a lot of people can say that.

00:44:55.181 --> 00:45:21.543
So, as somebody who's clearly figured things out, for young people who are listening to the show right now, who want to break in, you know, want to figure out, you know how they're going to get into this world and get good at this and land a spot like you've got Maybe that's a unicorn, but what advice do you have for young people who want to get into play by play or into this business in general?

00:45:22.567 --> 00:45:24.675
You know, and I don't know how much it's changed.

00:45:24.675 --> 00:45:32.889
You know, with digital age and you know there being so many ways to do play by play now, and you know, get it out there with online.

00:45:32.889 --> 00:45:34.943
But my whole thing is you're not going to learn unless you're doing it.

00:45:34.943 --> 00:45:45.719
So if there's, you know, if you're, if you're having a decision to make about going to a college where you're going to be able to get on air early or get on air later, I mean there's advantages, disadvantages to both.

00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:46.099
Of course.

00:45:46.099 --> 00:45:48.103
You know if you're on early, it's great.

00:45:48.103 --> 00:45:55.076
You don't want to pick up bad habits, but that you're only getting it's like, it's like a rookie quarterback right, You're only going to get better by being out there and playing.

00:45:55.076 --> 00:45:59.380
So and I would say is always figure out a way to do it.

00:45:59.380 --> 00:46:17.139
You know, don't buy your time thinking you're going to be a producer, You're going to be doing stuff off the air and everything, and then suddenly the break is going to come, where you go on the air because you know what they're probably going to hire someone that was doing stuff on the air Interesting, and that's probably that's my biggest thing is just get out there and do it and be as versatile as you can.

00:46:17.956 --> 00:46:21.574
And another line I use is you know, make yourself hard to fire, right?

00:46:21.574 --> 00:46:22.619
You know?

00:46:22.619 --> 00:46:25.795
Volunteer to do different things, get out of your comfort zone, do different things.

00:46:25.795 --> 00:46:27.097
Get out of your comfort zone, Do different things.

00:46:27.097 --> 00:46:37.469
So when they're invariably in any business media included, when they've got to make hard decisions on who to keep and who to let go, have it be when they get to that name, Rich DeMarco.

00:46:37.469 --> 00:46:38.251
You know what, Rich?

00:46:38.251 --> 00:46:39.780
He's doing a lot for us.

00:46:39.780 --> 00:46:43.300
I mean, I don't know, he's someone we want to keep.

00:46:43.300 --> 00:46:53.527
Don't pigeonhole yourself to where you'll be easily lopped off and and that's hard, that's hard to do sometimes because I picked up news reporting.

00:46:53.527 --> 00:46:56.561
I picked up some different things, I, you know, and it got me into news now.

00:46:56.561 --> 00:47:01.181
Now I'm a huge news like junkie because of that, but that's a whole other conversation.

00:47:01.181 --> 00:47:02.827
But yeah, that's it.

00:47:02.827 --> 00:47:08.128
Just make yourself hard to fire and I think if you say that to someone, they'll figure out how to become hard to fire.

00:47:08.936 --> 00:47:15.802
So that's my Didn't I give you a piece of advice when you were interning, very similar to that, which was how do we get on the air?

00:47:15.802 --> 00:47:17.539
Well, I want to be on the air at.

00:47:17.539 --> 00:47:18.583
I want to get on the air.

00:47:18.583 --> 00:47:19.940
And what did I say to you?

00:47:19.940 --> 00:47:32.831
I think it was if you want to be on the air be the air because it's not going to happen here.

00:47:32.753 --> 00:47:33.360
Right, sweeney murdy as well.

00:47:33.360 --> 00:47:35.065
I mean, that was, and I and I'm lucky enough to keep in touch with sweeney over the last several years and um, and that was the other.

00:47:35.065 --> 00:47:43.940
You know he'll always say and he's very sweeney, murdy is one of those realistic people I've ever talked to about the media, so he's always great to bounce things off of, whether texting or what have you, and you know those are the people doing it right you know what I mean?

00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:50.869
mean it's you could be the Yankee beat reporter for FAN, but when the Yankee play by play job opens, you know what that's probably going to go to someone who's doing play by play.

00:47:50.869 --> 00:47:57.429
Yeah, you know, and just thinking like that keeps you centered and keeps you clear on what you got to do.

00:47:58.235 --> 00:48:01.039
Now, before we let you go, we have to do this.

00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:04.704
I think I owe it to Larry Shea and I and the rest of our audience.

00:48:04.704 --> 00:48:10.081
Do you have one ridiculous Tushar story that you can send us off with?

00:48:12.472 --> 00:48:15.963
Ooh, I gotta come Just once.

00:48:15.983 --> 00:48:16.463
This is good.

00:48:16.523 --> 00:48:17.425
This is good.

00:48:17.425 --> 00:48:25.840
So when, um, so Tushar, like when you were like, tushar would just like disappear, sometimes for like half an hour an hour.

00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:26.282
An hour.

00:48:27.596 --> 00:48:36.639
So um, the fan was um and was simon was um, was picking up scott farrell on.

00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:51.567
Uh, dude sure knows this is going on, um, um, whatever, on, like the airwaves, like at like 11 o'clock at night I'm working 10 o'clock, I believe what he came on and bob usler's there doing the evening updates so like we're like listening to to pharrell's.

00:48:51.628 --> 00:49:01.903
He has like this ridiculous guy on talking like new york sports who's like giving nicknames to like like mets and yankees and everything what is this?

00:49:01.903 --> 00:49:05.496
And then he goes I'm with my and pharrell says I'm with my guy t.

00:49:05.496 --> 00:49:12.648
Pharrell says I'm with my guy Tushar the Freak Tushar was actually this like character that looked all into Pharrell.

00:49:17.246 --> 00:49:17.708
Talk about a player.

00:49:17.708 --> 00:49:22.085
I was doing I'll tell you what I was doing that from the back tape room.

00:49:22.126 --> 00:49:24.157
I was doing it from the back tape room and I remember I was.

00:49:24.197 --> 00:49:24.739
He wanted.

00:49:24.739 --> 00:49:27.206
Pharrell asked me to talk Rangers hockey with him.

00:49:27.206 --> 00:49:29.456
I knew very little about hockey.

00:49:29.456 --> 00:49:29.998
I still do.

00:49:30.099 --> 00:49:31.543
I still really don't know hockey all that well.

00:49:31.987 --> 00:49:34.422
I knew hockey well, that night boy, let me tell you.

00:49:34.422 --> 00:49:35.201
Oh my god.

00:49:35.483 --> 00:49:39.559
And he was he was too sure the freak, too sure the freak from Long Island on line two.

00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:42.889
I'll leave you with that one.

00:49:42.889 --> 00:49:44.614
I do think about that one from time to time.

00:49:44.614 --> 00:49:47.126
Whenever I see Pharrell somewhere, I always think of that one from time to time.

00:49:47.146 --> 00:49:48.311
Whenever I see Pharrell somewhere, I always think of that.

00:49:48.311 --> 00:49:48.875
That is perfect.

00:49:48.875 --> 00:49:51.784
So thank you for setting us up with that.

00:49:51.784 --> 00:50:03.445
Every time we talk to anybody who knows Tushar, we make sure we pull at least one of these stories and eventually we're going to put together an episode of Tushar Roast Stories and it's going to be a good one.

00:50:03.445 --> 00:50:09.717
Tushar the Freak Exactly we might now title it Tushar the Freak Exactly.

00:50:09.757 --> 00:50:10.621
We might now title it Tushar the Freak.

00:50:10.621 --> 00:50:11.282
That's actually perfect.

00:50:11.282 --> 00:50:16.155
Very little has changed in the 20-some odd years, so Rich thank you for coming on with us.

00:50:16.235 --> 00:50:23.599
This was so interesting hearing about working with a prestigious university or institution like West Point.

00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:27.847
It's just a remarkable story, a remarkable journey.

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Rich, thank you so much for joining us.

00:50:30.875 --> 00:50:31.739
Thank you for having me.

00:50:31.739 --> 00:50:33.882
Really, it's awesome spending this time with you guys.

00:50:34.875 --> 00:50:51.998
Well, I want to thank Rich for many different things, and perhaps the height of my thank you is for giving us yet another Tushar story that will undoubtedly be on our Best of Tushar episode that, at least in my mind, is in the works.

00:50:51.998 --> 00:50:58.849
So with that, tushar, what a remarkable guy and what a remarkable story.

00:50:59.434 --> 00:51:06.510
Very few of us have the opportunity to have our quote unquote dream job as our second job, out the box, right.

00:51:06.510 --> 00:51:11.018
So he was like I want to, I want to be the play-by-play guy at rutgers, but so?

00:51:11.018 --> 00:51:15.637
But there there comes along, this job, and then it turns out that he's there for the next 20 years.

00:51:15.637 --> 00:51:24.061
You know, it is extremely rare, almost non-existent, where you're able to have that kind of longevity at any one organization.

00:51:24.061 --> 00:51:25.244
Look at my own career.

00:51:25.244 --> 00:51:28.139
I have been through at least six or seven places.

00:51:28.139 --> 00:51:30.865
At one point I thought I'd be at wfn for the rest of my life.

00:51:30.865 --> 00:51:31.831
Didn't happen.

00:51:31.831 --> 00:51:34.541
I thought it'd be at certain other places for a long time it didn't happen.

00:51:35.525 --> 00:51:42.164
There's a certain amount of movement that happens in anyone's career and it's, it's going to happen, especially today, at one point or another.

00:51:42.164 --> 00:51:44.617
But for, but for.

00:51:44.617 --> 00:51:51.088
For someone to say I have been at this one institution for 20 years and that's why I asked him the question hey, you know what?

00:51:51.088 --> 00:52:02.855
If one of the crown jewels of college football came to you, whether it be Michigan, whether it be Alabama, whether it be UCLA, usc, would you take that job?

00:52:02.855 --> 00:52:05.117
And for him to say I'd have to seriously think about it and probably say no.

00:52:05.117 --> 00:52:07.277
And for him to say, I'd have to seriously think about it and probably say no.

00:52:07.277 --> 00:52:21.510
That's because he understands that this notion of tradition and this notion of history sometimes trumps all that stuff and that's what you have at an academy like West Point, at Annapolis, in Navy, at Air Force.

00:52:21.510 --> 00:52:29.980
These places go back to the very birth of America and that is a tradition and a history that you cannot find anywhere else.

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:30.742
Yeah, I couldn't agree more, t.

00:52:30.742 --> 00:52:32.166
You know, it's funny, though.

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He played the long game.

00:52:33.135 --> 00:52:34.639
He said that more than once.

00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:51.364
Right, like, play the long game when you're looking for a job like this and he's not there by accident, like when you listen to him describe the preparation that he goes through for these games and how he learned each year, you know he was like a great player, like adding an element of his game each offseason.

00:52:51.364 --> 00:52:55.226
Right, like, oh, I want to incorporate more personal stories this year.

00:52:55.226 --> 00:52:56.641
I want to try this this year.

00:52:56.641 --> 00:53:07.717
I mean, he's not there by accident, folks, it's so funny because what a lesson even when we get our dream job, you got to work to keep it and you got to get better, and there's always room to improve.

00:53:07.717 --> 00:53:11.925
And that's what I felt from rich that he he's not satisfied.

00:53:11.925 --> 00:53:16.139
He's thrilled but he's not satisfied and he's gonna keep trying to get better.

00:53:16.139 --> 00:53:19.972
And excellence isn't that what west point goes after?

00:53:19.972 --> 00:53:20.795
Is excellence?

00:53:20.795 --> 00:53:22.257
So good for him?

00:53:22.358 --> 00:53:30.545
um, what a great story, for sure one thing I was very impressed about is to know at a young age that I want to do play by play-play on the collegiate level, not on the pros.

00:53:30.545 --> 00:53:31.748
And he's right.

00:53:31.748 --> 00:53:36.567
I've always thought that the college athletic realm lends itself to a lot more fun.

00:53:36.567 --> 00:53:46.302
I always say, like you know, if you get to work on a college campus for your career, it keeps you young, because the kids are always the same age and you never really get to grow old.

00:53:46.302 --> 00:53:50.719
And that is a different vibe than being part of a pro organization.

00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:54.235
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying it's way different, absolutely.

00:53:54.275 --> 00:53:55.358
That's a great point.

00:53:55.358 --> 00:54:21.936
And, coming back to the advice that he gave at the end and we've heard this from other broadcasters as well it's not just about working, it's not just about getting reps I mean, that's obviously the crux and the core of everything but it's a matter of doing what you love and doing it and making the decision that that's where you're going and that's where you're headed, and don't take other jobs, so to speak.

00:54:21.936 --> 00:54:23.338
Don't get distracted.

00:54:23.338 --> 00:54:30.574
Don't do something that's not related just to get in the door distracted.

00:54:30.574 --> 00:54:31.998
Don't do something that's not related, just to get in the door.

00:54:31.998 --> 00:54:33.923
Start working and believe in your path and believe in your vision and go after it.

00:54:33.923 --> 00:54:37.157
If you're a play-by-play guy, that's who you want to be Do it.

00:54:37.157 --> 00:54:39.762
Incredible, incredible advice.

00:54:40.384 --> 00:54:45.782
So with that, rich DeMarco, thank you so much for joining this episode of no Wrong Choices.

00:54:45.782 --> 00:54:47.746
We also thank you for joining us.

00:54:47.746 --> 00:54:57.981
If this episode made you think of an inspiring person in your life who could be a great guest, please send us a note via the contact page of our website at norongchoicescom.

00:54:57.981 --> 00:55:04.405
We also encourage you to connect with us on LinkedIn, instagram, youtube, facebook X and Threads.

00:55:04.405 --> 00:55:08.585
On behalf of Tushar Saxena, larry Shea and me, larry samuels.

00:55:08.585 --> 00:55:17.246
Thank you again and always remember there are no wrong choices on the road to success, only opportunities, because we learn from every experience.